News from Sheffield

[Simon Biazeck]

I am still fuming over Sheffield, and it suddenly occurred to me to look at the Friends of Cathedral Music website for their statement on the subject; (they now call themselves the Cathedral Music Trust).

Well I looked in vain, I can see nothing. If someone can point me to anything official from them I'd be grateful.

If they are in fact silent on the matter I will probably be reviewing my subscription to them which goes back twenty years now. But maybe I'm missing something - let's hope so.

(There is the odd individual comment that I can see via my limited access to Facebook (I'm not a Facebook member)) but I'm looking for their official line on the subject.)

They, quite rightly, may not consider it responsible to comment on a matter about which they only know as much as any of us who are not directly involved. Why inflame such a sensitive matter with potentially inflammatory statements based on hearsay? Even if fully briefed, discretion is advisable. Word is that there will be a legal challenge, so those directly involved will be asked to refrain from all comment. We all (well, most of us!) feel strongly about it. Stay calm - offer support in another way - pray.

SBz.

[PeterboroughDiapason]

They, quite rightly, may not consider it responsible to comment on a matter about which they only know as much as any of us who are not directly involved. Why inflame such a sensitive matter with potentially inflammatory statements based on hearsay? Even if fully briefed, discretion is advisable. Word is that there will be a legal challenge, so those directly involved will be asked to refrain from all comment. We all (well, most of us!) feel strongly about it. Stay calm - offer support in another way - pray.

SBz.

[mw963]

I (genuinely!) respect and indeed admire your position Simon, but experience over many years suggests to me that in this case the Dean is relying on us all keeping calm and praying, because he's only got to hang on a few weeks and the position will become irreversible.

And actually I think this is PRECISELY the sort of battle (I use the term carefully) the FCM should be fighting, because if the Dean wins at Sheffield there will be many others of his ilk that will be tempted to go down the same avenue of vandalism. So yes I think FCM should be commenting (what have they got to lose?) because they were set up to maintain (ie protect) cathedral choirs. And if they won't do that then my meagre subscription is better used to support directly a choir under threat.

As I say though, your way is one that I can admire.

[ardcarp]

Apropos of nothing much, Peter Bradley was for a time Chaplain of Gonville and Caius College Cambridge, which has a long and strong tradition of choral music. In the days when just a few colleges had a 'professional' DoM (including Kings, Johns, Trinity, Clare) Caius was one of them.

[cat]

FcM worked towards its objectives primarily through providing grants - their constitution didn’t really provide for them to operate as a campaigning organisation.

I’m not sure how the newly created Cathedral Music Trust intends to achieve its objectives, but consider that it would be difficult for them to work with the D&C at Sheffield to support choral music in the future if they were to publicly castigate them at this stage. There has already been a tonne of media coverage so there wouldn’t really be anything to be gained by a public statement from the trust.

[Simon Biazeck]

I (genuinely!) respect and indeed admire your position Simon, but experience over many years suggests to me that in this case the Dean is relying on us all keeping calm and praying, because he's only got to hang on a few weeks and the position will become irreversible.

And actually I think this is PRECISELY the sort of battle (I use the term carefully) the FCM should be fighting, because if the Dean wins at Sheffield there will be many others of his ilk that will be tempted to go down the same avenue of vandalism. So yes I think FCM should be commenting (what have they got to lose?) because they were set up to maintain (ie protect) cathedral choirs. And if they won't do that then my meagre subscription is better used to support directly a choir under threat.

As I say though, your way is one that I can admire.

Thank you and likewise - your passion is commendable and your righteous indignation is more than justified.

I do wonder if they were asked not to weigh in by those involved...? It's possible, I suppose.

It's all very difficult and worrying and a sign of moral turpitude (too strong?) to deprive the young (especially) of their choral community in this situation.

[DracoM]

<<< to deprive the young (especially) of their choral community in this situation. >>>

...and that is what upsets me most. The Dean seems unaware [?] of what he is doing to fray the lifelines for some / many Sheffield futures.

[Pulcinella]

I hope that this attitude, expressed in a Comment column in today's Times, is not widespread (but fear that it might be):

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/good-riddance-to-insanely-expensive-cathedral-choirs-2bj07k985?shareToken=6e237efe9c6c22b74eb302c6846ded99

Sheffield is mentioned.
The heading is: Good riddance to insanely expensive cathedral choirs

[Keraulophone]

It appears that I am ‘ludicrously expensive’. That’s news to me. I though I was cheap!

Regrettably, the Dean (or dean) of Sheffield’s ‘prayerful reflection’ and mismanaged mangling of his music department has led to this kind of overreaction.

[mw963]

FcM worked towards its objectives primarily through providing grants - their constitution didn’t really provide for them to operate as a campaigning organisation.

I’m not sure how the newly created Cathedral Music Trust intends to achieve its objectives, but consider that it would be difficult for them to work with the D&C at Sheffield to support choral music in the future if they were to publicly castigate them at this stage. There has already been a tonne of media coverage so there wouldn’t really be anything to be gained by a public statement from the trust.

You may well be right cat, although I'm sure I've seen FCM statements in this sort of situation in the past.

In any case, I have - after nineteen years of subscription - yesterday asked the FCM to end my membership. I'm sure it won't spell the end of them, but maybe someone somewhere will have a little think.....

[W.Kearns]

I hope that this attitude, expressed in a Comment column in today's Times, is not widespread (but fear that it might be):

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/good-riddance-to-insanely-expensive-cathedral-choirs-2bj07k985?shareToken=6e237efe9c6c22b74eb302c6846ded99

Sheffield is mentioned.
The heading is: Good riddance to insanely expensive cathedral choirs

Two thoughts. (1) If choirs are expensive, so too are solicitors. I am no lawyer, but it strikes me that re-purposing the historic funds dedicated to the upkeep of a cathedral choir and choir-school would probably call for much costly negotiation between Church Commissioners and the Charity Commission. No doubt it could be done, but the outcry and fallout would be immense and, in the short-term at any rate, I'm not sure that how much saving there would be.

(2) It would appear that the Dean of Sheffield has stepped rather guilefully round this issue by insisting that there WILL continue to be a choir at Sheffield Cathedral, just not the present one.

[Cockney Sparrow]

Firstly, remember - its August. Not too hard to get onto the Times guest column slot.

Online, its set comments aflame. A number of interesting ones. If I were an Anglican I too would split my giving, with part going to the Cathedral Music Trust, so the rest of the Church can't get its hands on it. (And also a portion to Cathedral Friends where there is a dedicated fabric fund).

[Keraulophone]

If I were an Anglican I too would split my giving, with part going to the Cathedral Music Trust, so the rest of the Church can't get its hands on it.

An excellent idea.

Even funds and endowments expressly reserved to fund the music department can mysteriously be diverted to other uses. There is little transparency, and annual accounts are conveniently not published for the congregation to view, contrary to the Church Commissioners instructions, which are (or were, the last time I looked) to advertise their availability.

[W.Kearns]

An excellent idea.

Even funds and endowments expressly reserved to fund the music department can mysteriously be diverted to other uses. There is little transparency, and annual accounts are conveniently not published for the congregation to view, contrary to the Church Commissioners instructions, which are (or were, the last time I looked) to advertise their availability.

Glory! Talk about slippery cloisters....Thanks for the information, Keraulophone.

[Ein Heldenleben]

An excellent idea.

Even funds and endowments expressly reserved to fund the music department can mysteriously be diverted to other uses. There is little transparency, and annual accounts are conveniently not published for the congregation to view, contrary to the Church Commissioners instructions, which are (or were, the last time I looked) to advertise their availability.

I once went to evensong at Magdalen Oxford where the Chaplain (?) made it clear that the collection was going to local homeless charities - Magdalen is a wealthy college it doesnt need the cash . I usually contribute the equivalent of a concert ticket but I did notice that very few stumped up...many were tourists and perhaps didn't get the tradition. I went to Evensong at another college's Alumni event where the stack of twenties and fifties made me wonder whether a certain competitive psychological game was going on ....It also made me wonder , somewhat inappropriately, whether Choral Evensong could be a bit of a money spinner ?