CE Guildford Cathedral Jan 15th 2020 [A]

[Miles Coverdale]

Another problem with Guildford besides the acoustic is that the two sides of the choir are half a mile apart.

That's true, they are a long way away. I believe the reason for that was to afford people at the front of the nave an uninterrupted view of the altar.

[chrisjstanley]

Yes, lots of plus marks for a full rendition of Psalm 78, even though the choice of chants is not my particular favourite. St T NYC have changed their chants to Psalm 78 as well and now give the full monte instead of alternating between Psalm 78 part 1 and part 2. The full service with 18 minutes of Psalm 78 can be accessed here. The chants are now the same as those sung by Guildford all those years ago.

https://www.saintthomaschurch.org/webcast/choral-evensong-2020-01-15/

bws
Chris S

[Barry Rose]

[QUOTE=Miles Coverdale;774781]When the cathedral was first built the acoustic was very reverberant, some would say too much so. Later, acoustic plaster was added to the ceiling to dampen it down.

I'll try and keep this as brief as possible.
This is a tale of two Guildford acoustics - the one I found when I went there 60 years ago, and the now more reverberant version.
When I arrived, the East end was complete, with the vault covered in a thick layer of absorbent acoustic plaster - little or no reverberation. The Nave was in the process of construction and I tried, in vain, to persuade the architect to instruct his acoustics consultant (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hope_Bagenal) to leave the acoustic plaster off the nave so that at least we might have some sort of period of reverberation.
He didn't, and the whole of the Nave vault was covered in the absorbent plaster. You can check the lack of reverberation by playing the first 16 seconds of this recording, made in the Cathedral in 1969 (8 years after the Consecration) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmjRdPMg07I - and that was the acoustic I, Philip Moore, Andrew Millington, Stephen Farr, and Katherine Dienes-Williams, for the first years of her current tenure, worked with - totally unrewarding for the singers and, as has been pointed out elsewhere in this thread, with the added difficulty of the choir stalls being so far apart.
But that didn't stop any of us making music day by day in that wonderful building, and indeed, recordings made in there do have a spaciousness, as well as clarity - EMI used the Cathedral for orchestral recordings, as well as those made with the choir.
Since this was a BBC Evensong, the balance you heard was set by the engineers and the producer, and in my 14 years there we had all sorts of differing balances in our broadcasts - from the over-spacious to the downright clinical ! It was, and still is, possible to get different perspectives and nowadays they have the advantage of that wonderful long reverberation, following the enforced (for health reasons, so I'm told - asbestos etc) removal of all that acoustic plaster.
The moral of this tale? - avoid acoustics experts at all costs !

[Serial_Apologist]

[QUOTE=Barry Rose;774859]

When the cathedral was first built the acoustic was very reverberant, some would say too much so. Later, acoustic plaster was added to the ceiling to dampen it down.

I'll try and keep this as brief as possible.
This is a tale of two Guildford acoustics - the one I found when I went there 60 years ago, and the now more reverberant version.
When I arrived, the East end was complete, with the vault covered in a thick layer of absorbent acoustic plaster - little or no reverberation. The Nave was in the process of construction and I tried, in vain, to persuade the architect to instruct his acoustics consultant (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hope_Bagenal) to leave the acoustic plaster off the nave so that at least we might have some sort of period of reverberation.
He didn't, and the whole of the Nave vault was covered in the absorbent plaster. You can check the lack of reverberation by playing the first 16 seconds of this recording, made in the Cathedral in 1969 (8 years after the Consecration) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmjRdPMg07I - and that was the acoustic I, Philip Moore, Andrew Millington, Stephen Farr, and Katherine Dienes-Williams, for the first years of her current tenure, worked with - totally unrewarding for the singers and, as has been pointed out elsewhere in this thread, with the added difficulty of the choir stalls being so far apart.
But that didn't stop any of us making music day by day in that wonderful building, and indeed, recordings made in there do have a spaciousness, as well as clarity - EMI used the Cathedral for orchestral recordings, as well as those made with the choir.
Since this was a BBC Evensong, the balance you heard was set by the engineers and the producer, and in my 14 years there we had all sorts of differing balances in our broadcasts - from the over-spacious to the downright clinical ! It was, and still is, possible to get different perspectives and nowadays they have the advantage of that wonderful long reverberation, following the enforced (for health reasons, so I'm told - asbestos etc) removal of all that acoustic plaster.
The moral of this tale? - avoid acoustics experts at all costs !

Thank you Barry for the link to the performance you provided. Positioned as we were when performing in the cathedral in 1963 or 4 we only would have had the apparently much longer long reverberation experienced from that location.

[Miles Coverdale]

It would seem, then, that the tape I heard was made before the plaster was added to the nave ceiling. The person who played me the tape did refer to the participants 'sneaking in' one evening to make it. Certainly the acoustic was noticeably bigger than it was when I was a lay clerk there in the 1990s.

[Pulcinella]

Another problem with Guildford besides the acoustic is that the two sides of the choir are half a mile apart.

I wonder which cathedral (or similar establishment) has the widest separation.
I'm tempted to say Liverpool, but I might be wrong.
Apologies if this takes us off topic: a kind host could perhaps move my question and start a new thread if deemed worthwhile!

[DracoM]

Rpt today.

[vinteuil]

I wonder which cathedral (or similar establishment) has the widest separation.
I'm tempted to say Liverpool, but I might be wrong.

... apart from St Peter's, I think it's Girona (22 metres) -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girona_Cathedral

after which, the small town of Mirepoix has a claim (21.4 metres) -

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathédrale_Saint-Maurice_de_Mirepoix

.

[Pulcinella]

... apart from St Peter's, I think it's Girona (22 metres) -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girona_Cathedral

after which, the small town of Mirepoix has a claim (21.4 metres) -

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathédrale_Saint-Maurice_de_Mirepoix

.

Aren't those both just width of nave, not separation between choir stalls?
Thanks though: both interesting buidlings!

[cat]

I wonder which cathedral (or similar establishment) has the widest separation.
I'm tempted to say Liverpool, but I might be wrong.
Apologies if this takes us off topic: a kind host could perhaps move my question and start a new thread if deemed worthwhile!

I'm pretty sure Guildford is wider than Liverpool

Meanwhile I'd guess the closest would be Norwich, which surely has to be less than 6ft.

[omega consort]

I would think Chichester might be the narrowest - Dec and Can trebles can almost shake hands during the peace! Ripon and Lincoln feel miles apart if you are stood in the middle conducting!

[DracoM]

In Ripon - dead right!

[Finzi4ever]

In Ripon - dead right!

Just follow the famous wooden beat:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfklmYJfXmo

[DracoM]