A Service for Advent with Carols Sunday, Dec 1st @ 3 p.m.[L]

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  • Roger Judd
    Full Member
    • Apr 2012
    • 232

    #16
    Many thanks indeed, Barry, for your two posts. Listening to the 1956 carol I uttered a silent cheer. I have a bee-in-my-bonnet about the pronunciation of the word 'Lullay'. i always wanted it to accord with Lullaby, not as 'Loollay'. Delighted to hear that Boris Ord thought the same!

    On the matter of the St John's sound in George Guest's time. The following little reminiscence may be of interest. In the Autumn of 1972 I was appointed to run the music at St Michael's College Tenbury. I was assistant at Ely Cathedral, and got in touch with George Guest to ask for guidance in training boys' voices, never previously having had that responsibility. He was generosity itself, and invited me over to Cambridge to not only talk with him, but also to sit in on the boys' morning rehearsals as often as I could. These moments were absolutely invaluable for me, and I learnt so much. As Barry has said, he did have a musical speaking voice - partly the Welsh-ness in him, I guess. He treated the boys as his equals - they were never talked down to - and entered into quite deep conversations with them about the music and, most importantly the words. The exercises they did as warm-ups were pretty spectacular too, none more so that the 3 octave arpeggios starting on the E flat, E natural or F below mid.C., and going up to Queen-of-the-night height! He gave me a sheaf of his beautifully hand-written notes about training boys, which he had made after talking with the director of the Copenhagen Boys' Choir. (Maddeningly, just at the moment, i can't lay my hands on these notes.) He was also clear that the boys need to be able to adapt their sound to different repertoire, and his recorded legacy amply bears that out. He was a huge influence on me and many, many others ... in short, a genius.
    RJ

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    • ardcarp
      Late member
      • Nov 2010
      • 11102

      #17
      Thanks Roger. I've just given CD13 from The St John's/Guest box set from Argo a spin. It includes the Victoria Requiem, and
      boys need to be able to adapt their sound to different repertoire
      is wonderfully demonstrated here...at times passionate, at others ethereal. The ATBs are pretty darn good too.

      Comment

      • Resurgam
        Banned
        • Aug 2019
        • 52

        #18
        [QUOTE=Barry Rose;765303]
        Originally posted by ardcarp View Post
        Interesting also that the early King's College carol services of the Boris Ord era tended to have 'simpler' fare, e.g. A Virgin Most Pure, arr. Wood; O Little One Sweet (Bach Chorale).

        And here is a memento of that time of 'simpler' fare from King's- I saw a Maiden (arr. Edgar Pettman) from the live broadcast of Nine Lessons and Carols on Christmas Eve 1956 - Boris Ord's last one in charge, I think (he was not well from the mid 1950's onwards). https://www.dropbox.com/s/31q4cc2uiq...56%29.wav?dl=0
        Lovely - I would recommend anyone to watch the 1954 first television broadcast of nine lessons and carols recently shown on TV in a digitally re-mastered form on TV - beautiful singing.

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        • Barry Rose
          Full Member
          • Oct 2014
          • 19

          #19
          Simple and popular...

          Originally posted by jonfan View Post
          . The choice of music for the choir was more 'popular' and 'simple' than now....
          Just one more example of that from the very first St.John's Advent Carol Service broadcast in 1981 - https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgaz3s21em...arden.wav?dl=0

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          • DracoM
            Host
            • Mar 2007
            • 12962

            #20
            Exquisite - disciplined and clear.
            The back rows are rich, nicely dark, and focused too.

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            • DracoM
              Host
              • Mar 2007
              • 12962

              #21
              Reminder: today @ 3 p.m.

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              • jonfan
                Full Member
                • Dec 2010
                • 1424

                #22
                Originally posted by Barry Rose View Post
                Just one more example of that from the very first St.John's Advent Carol Service broadcast in 1981 - https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgaz3s21em...arden.wav?dl=0
                Stunning example where less is more, or seems to be, with a touch 'hilarious' to quote Dearmer again. Six verses of the same tune and harmony could sound samey but not here with witty, colourful links on the organ to add to the fun. GG always had the text and tune to the fore. His arrangements that I know of Advent carols demonstrate that as well, eg 'Zion at thy shining gate' and the austere 'When came in flesh the incarnate Word' [New English Hymnal 17] where time stands still in penitential contemplation where his 'arrangement' just isn't one, just at the service of the text and tune and their message.
                For reference, Percy Dearmer was editor of the Oxford Book of Carols 1928 with R Vaughan Williams and Martin Shaw, and his opening two sentences of the preface goes 'Carols are songs with a religious impulse that are simple, hilarious, popular and modern. They are generally spontaneous and direct in expression, and their simplicity of form causes them sometimes to ramble on like a ballad.' No rambling on with a master like GG!

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                • greenilex
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 1626

                  #23
                  Tender soothing flute perhaps necessary after a sizeable dose of trump...sorry

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                  • Petrushka
                    Full Member
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 12239

                    #24
                    Is the full order of service book available on the St John's website? I've been trying and can't find it.
                    "The sound is the handwriting of the conductor" - Bernard Haitink

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                    • verismissimo
                      Full Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 2957

                      #25
                      Who decided that modern translations of the readings were more appropriate than the King James in this context ?

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                      • mopsus
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 818

                        #26
                        The decision was made a few years ago as they have used modern translations for a while now. They are clearly pushed for time as a couple of hymns have begun very soon after the preceding carol has finished.

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                        • DracoM
                          Host
                          • Mar 2007
                          • 12962

                          #27
                          Ambitious, inventive, finely organised, testnig music but eminently in the spirit of the day, some outstanding solos, and fine choral singing.
                          For me, as I listened watching the most stunning, slow, rich golden sunset over the fells, this was among the very best John's services I've heard for some years.

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                          • greenilex
                            Full Member
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 1626

                            #28
                            Magic, I agree. But I had to miss a lot of it chasing the dog round the park. She gets mischievous at dusk.

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                            • jonfan
                              Full Member
                              • Dec 2010
                              • 1424

                              #29
                              Originally posted by DracoM View Post
                              Ambitious, inventive, finely organised, testnig music but eminently in the spirit of the day, some outstanding solos, and fine choral singing.
                              For me, as I listened watching the most stunning, slow, rich golden sunset over the fells, this was among the very best John's services I've heard for some years.
                              Agree totally. Exceeding even their Rolls Royce standards. The feel of the Chapel excellently caught in well balanced sound. Wonderful colourful organ playing, especially the segue from Judith B’s anthem on ‘Hark the glad sound’ into the hymn with an immense organ sound. In fact many hymns followed on from anthems without a break, an AN original touch? I like it.
                              The whole got the Advent season off to an appropriate penitent start.

                              Comment

                              • ardcarp
                                Late member
                                • Nov 2010
                                • 11102

                                #30
                                Absolutely fabulous.

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