Howells: Magnificat and Nunc dimittis settings

[Vox Humana]

Oh well maybe I just have a blank spot when it comes to the New College service.

I'll share it with you. I wouldn't go out of my way to hear it. It's not that I think it's in any way bad. I just find it a bit penny-plain compared to most of his other settings.

[Wolsey]

The Collegium Sancti Johannis Cantabrigiense setting has long been a favourite of mine. I'm also of the opinion that there is not a consistency of quality in the less well known settings.

[Pulcinella]

The Collegium Sancti Johannis Cantabrigiense setting has long been a favourite of mine. I'm also of the opinion that there is not a consistency of quality in the less well known settings.

I'll agree (again!), and of course Howells was associated with St John's (though I'd need to check if he was at the time of composition), but to dismiss a setting as 'a waste of space' is perhaps a bit cruel.


I've listened to the first two CDs in the Priory series today, and the settings are certainly not equally easy on the ear, but each has some virtue, for this listener, at least.
Must keep my eyes out for the Minster doing the York setting!

[Wolsey]

I'll agree (again!), and of course Howells was associated with St John's (though I'd need to check if he was at the time of composition)...

The setting is dated 1957, and Howells was Acting Organist from 1941-1945, Robin Orr having been called up during World War II.

[Philip]

A topic dear to my heart. What follows being my not so humble opinion:

The Gloucester is the best setting ever written by anyone. One moment of sheer beauty after another.

The St Paul's is wonderful, so epic in scale that it reminds you of the insignificance of our mortal existence.

I'm less fond of Coll Reg, but see how it merits its place in the top three.

I agree on the Westminster, flavours of St Paul's but darker and more restrained. A wonderful Gloria with a fabulous final cadence of straining to the major chord, enjoyed twice.

The B minor (the sort of other Westminster) is worth hearing. As is Worcester. St John's is less interesting than some but also a decent setting.

New College I never took to for a while, but suddenly I 'got' it and now love it. I agree with the contributor above about the 'He remembering his mercy' section, which I think is as wonderful as anything Howells wrote. I think I recall reading somewhere that Edward Higginbotham thought the entry to the Glorias was either the best or worst feature of the setting, depending on your opinion! I also recall reading that Howells was pleased with it. (At one church I play one of the altos is Howells-phobic. Her bete noir was St Paul's until New College entered the arena!)

The G major I think of as something of a Stanford on steroids. It's clearly different to the rest of the output but has some great moments, none more so than the West End show ending to the Magnificat.

I have the first Priory disc, and find the Sarum and York settings quite enjoyable. I don't know if either institution to which they are dedicated performs them.

And 10 years ago I didn't like Howells much. I think it takes some getting into. It would be remiss not to mention the Coll Reg Te Deum, which is almost the equal of Gloucester.

[ardcarp]

As an aside, we seldom get to hear the Morning Canticles by any composer these days (outside cathedrals that still do Matins). I'd make a plea for the occasional Te Deum or Jubilate to be done as an anthem at Evensong.

[Nick Armstrong]

A topic dear to my heart. What follows being my not so humble opinion:

The Gloucester is the best setting ever written by anyone. One moment of sheer beauty after another.

The St Paul's is wonderful, so epic in scale that it reminds you of the insignificance of our mortal existence.

I'm less fond of Coll Reg, but see how it merits its place in the top three.

I agree on the Westminster, flavours of St Paul's but darker and more restrained. A wonderful Gloria with a fabulous final cadence of straining to the major chord, enjoyed twice.

May I equally humbly agree with your opinions, Philip?

Close to my heart, too... and yes, the ‘top three’ deserve their place, as you say with Coll. Reg. not quite attaining the heights of Gloucester and St Paul’s (I like the way you have defined their different characters).

And, again like you, I’ve come to love the Westminster as much - since hearing it at the St John’s Cambridge Advent service a few years back.

Each set has, for me, a “moment” which makes the hairs stand.... in the case of the Westminster, it’s the setting of the word “Abraham” in the Magnificat: the treble line cascades down to a modulation in the middle of the word, which never fails to shiver my timbers

[ardcarp]

with Coll. Reg. not quite attaining the heights of Gloucester and St Paul’s

Well, it depends what is meant by 'heights' ! I love the wistful upper voices opening of Coll Reg

e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMBm9ZkmHFQ

(and you can't get more authentic than that )

...and the tenor solo of the Nunc is rather special. Especially if you happen to be a tenor......

[Pulcinella]

Coll Reg is very special for me, as it was the first Howells setting I came across, on the King's Willcocks Argo recording now available on Eloquence (including the morning service settings):

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8037920--howells-vaughan-williams-choral-music

Of course the St Paul's setting is there too; Gloucester came later for me!

[BBMmk2]

Thanks for this.

[Pulcinella]

In town this morning, so I ordered (printed) copies of the York and Dallas settings to supplement the ones I already have (London, Oxbridge, Three Choirs, Southern Counties).
I should have known that launching this thread would cost me something.

[Nick Armstrong]

Coll Reg is very special for me, as it was the first Howells setting I came across, on the King's Willcocks Argo recording now available on Eloquence (including the morning service settings)

The Coll Reg Te Deum and Jubilate are unparalleled, I sometimes think I’d take them over any evening service if I could only listen to 2 Howells pieces ever again.

[ardcarp]

Off topic (as usual) but the mention of Dallas reminds me of Take Him Earth for Cherishing , surely one of Howells' highest achievements in the anthem genre. Soul-wrenching...if that's an appropriate description.

[Philip]

And, again like you, I’ve come to love the Westminster as much - since hearing it at the St John’s Cambridge Advent service a few years back.

Each set has, for me, a “moment” which makes the hairs stand.... in the case of the Westminster, it’s the setting of the word “Abraham” in the Magnificat: the treble line cascades down to a modulation in the middle of the word, which never fails to shiver my timbers

Yes, that's a fine moment. Funnily enough the chord on 'Abraham' in the Gloucester is equally wonderful and my acid test for how well it's being sung.

[Philip]

Well, it depends what is meant by 'heights' ! I love the wistful upper voices opening of Coll Reg

e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMBm9ZkmHFQ

(and you can't get more authentic than that )

...and the tenor solo of the Nunc is rather special. Especially if you happen to be a tenor......

Oh, I'm not saying Coll Reg isn't good. I love the modulation on 'Abraham and his seed for ever', landing on that chord on 'ever' is just perfect. The Gloria is great although controversially it's not my favourite among Howells settings!

The tenor solo in the Nunc is far more difficult to execute well than it appears from the notes on the page. I've heard some less than pleasant attempts; it's so tempting to over-sing it in an effort to be heard over the choir.