Sir Stephen Cleobury

[Boilk]

The thread title seems to have escaped some...

As does the concept of talent, amongst those who nominate/award some of these 'gongs'.

[MrGongGong]

As does the concept of talent, amongst those who nominate/award some of these 'gongs'.

What mr Byrne said

[jonfan]

An obvious observation is that it’s all men in the picture. Come on this has got to change. Why no women as organ scholars? This award is for longevity and certainly not for descants.

[MrGongGong]

An obvious observation is that it’s all men in the picture. Come on this has got to change. Why no women as organ scholars? This award is for longevity and certainly not for descants.

Absolutely

[ardcarp]

There are quite a few Oxbridge organ scholars organ scholars who are women. None yet at King's or John's as far as I know.

Leaving aside the gender-equality issue (which I agree with) it must depend on how many girls versus boys take up the organ as their main instrument. I'm out of the loop these days, but my guess is that, despite many fine examples of women organists (Susi Jeans, Marie-Claire Alain, Margaret Phillips and of course Dame Gillian spring to mind) the numbers are weighted towards blokes.

I was very chuffed when one of my organ pupils won the Organ Scholarship at Corpus Christi College, Cambridge back in the early 1990s. I think she was one of the first.

[jonfan]

There are quite a few Oxbridge organ scholars organ scholars who are women. None yet at King's or John's as far as I know.

Leaving aside the gender-equality issue (which I agree with) it must depend on how many girls versus boys take up the organ as their main instrument. I'm out of the loop these days, but my guess is that, despite many fine examples of women organists (Susi Jeans, Marie-Claire Alain, Margaret Phillips and of course Dame Gillian spring to mind) the numbers are weighted towards blokes.

I was very chuffed when one of my organ pupils won the Organ Scholarship at Corpus Christi College, Cambridge back in the early 1990s. I think she was one of the first.

The names you quote are from a previous generation Mr A. The membership of the IAO has about an even membership male/female. There’s an obvious reason why King’s and St John’s have no women organ scholars. Hopefully DH is the person to change things.

[ardcarp]

And membership of the RCO ??

The names you quote are from a previous generation Mr A.

Sadly I'm from a previous generation. But the women organists I mentioned are surely role models to whatever generation?

Yes there are several women who have 'made it' in the recent world of church music..Sarah Baldock and Ketherine Dienes to name a couple.

Then there's the old joke:

Q. How many Oxford dons does it take to change a light-bulb?
A. Change?????!!!!!

[Wolsey]

I was very chuffed when one of my organ pupils won the Organ Scholarship at Corpus Christi College, Cambridge back in the early 1990s. I think she was one of the first.

I recall you made a similar statement in December 2017, and I referred you then to Marilyn Harper's article on this subject.

Jonfan's observation in post 18 was made by one of the former organ scholars in the picture above which also appeared on his Facebook page. He wrote, "While this is a great group of people, it's hard to ignore the fact that everyone in the photo is male (and white). Here's to hoping that more young women will set their sights on the many wonderful opportunities this organ scholarship offers!" Indeed, at the beginning of this month, the Cambridge Organ Experience for Girls was held in that city, organised by two of the Colleges' female directors of music. At the centenary conference of the Cathedral Organists' Association in York last month, there were no fewer than five female members, of whom four are in post; the fifth retired in 2013.

[makropulos]

That photo reminds me that Richard Farnes (back row, third from the right) was one of Stephen Cleobury's organ scholars before he made his career as one of our best opera conductors.

[silvestrione]

This remains a slightly difficult forum section to get into, unless you're already 'in', as it were. I recognise Sir Stephen, but otherwise the provenance and point of the photo escapes me.

[makropulos]

This remains a slightly difficult forum section to get into, unless you're already 'in', as it were. I recognise Sir Stephen, but otherwise the provenance and point of the photo escapes me.

It's a gathering of former King's College organ scholars who met to celebrate SC's retirement. I'm sure somebody here can name them all...

[Wolsey]

It's a gathering of former King's College organ scholars who met to celebrate SC's retirement. I'm sure somebody here can name them all...

Top: Peter Barley, Ashley Grote, Chris Hughes, Donal McCann, David Briggs, Richard Farnes, David Goode, Richard Gowers
Bottom: Robert Quinney, James Vivian, Parker Ramsay, Henry Websdale, Stephen Cleobury, Benjamin Bayl, Stephen Layton, Tom Winpenny, Daniel Hyde

(Source: David Briggs)

[silvestrione]

Interesting. Does the Director of Music teach the organ scholar? Does he have the time, and does he have the opportunity to keep up his own organ playing, anyway? I noticed at evensong, he came back in after they'd processed out, to listen to the rest of the voluntary, I assume.

[ardcarp]

It varies. Inevitably the most important part of an O & C’s job is training the choristers. Generally the assistant or organ scholar does most of the accompanying. Some definitely ‘keep their hand in’ and play a lot including outside gigs. One organist of a well known Midlands Cathedral, now long deceased, hardly played at all. His ‘contract’ stipulated that he should play at every service. So this consisted of his climbing to the organ loft after the anthem and playing the hymn. I once had the delightful spectacle of seeing him and his assistant ‘cheating’ by sitting side by side on the organ bench and playing a Bach trio sonata as a manuals only ‘duet’.