CE Winchester Cathedral 23.i.19 [L]

[mw963]

If ever there's a cathedral that deserves a new organ it's Winchester.

Do you mean a completely NEW (replacement) organ or a complete overhaul of the existing....?

[Finzi4ever]

"Wessex" and the descant are in New English Hymnal (49 1st tune) - there is a double connection with Winchester Cathedral. The composer of the tune Alwyn Surplice (1906-1977) was organist of Winchester Cathedral from 1949 to1972,
the composer of the descant Anthony Caesar* (1924-2018) was a chorister at Winchester in the 1930s and Precentor and a Canon from 1974 to 1979.

ADC* was a fascinating man, as even the short biog. from the website of Stainer & Bell, who published some of his music, demonstrates: "Anthony Cæsar was a chorister of Winchester Cathedral, Music Scholar of Cranleigh School (obtaining his ARCO at the age of 17) and later of Magdalene College, Cambridge, where he was taught by Harold Darke (composer of the popular Christmas work ‘In the bleak midwinter’), amongst others. After war service in the RAF, he graduated in Music and History and gained his FRCO, becoming Assistant Music Master at Eton College under Sydney Watson and organist of Windsor Parish Church before becoming Precentor (Director of Music) of Radley College. Following ordination (SSH, Oxon) in 1961 his ministry included being headquarters chaplain of the RSCM at Addington Palace, resident priest of St Stephen’s, Bournemouth (where Percy Whitlock was once organist), Precentor, Sacrist and Canon Residentiary of Winchester and, latterly, Sub-Dean of HM Chapels Royal and Domestic Chaplain to The Queen.
From the Radley perspective, he pretty well 'created' music there and began to build a reputation from nothing. I think he claimed to be the only person to be installed 4 times at Winchester.

[mw963]

And - according to the Church Times obit - he played the organ for the 1943 Kings College Carols broadcast.

As a result of work I met him once in about 1983, and - as we got on well - suggested (not really knowing quite how "important" he was) that we had a drink at the bar afterwards. Drink became a canteen meal with another organist colleague, followed by a lengthy return to the bar. An evening the memory of which I shall treasure, a highly amusing, warm and charming man, who wore both his importance and his Faith with the lightest of touches.

[Lizzie]

As far as know, it's an overhaul. Don't think there's been one for a good few years. Another major appeal I imagine!

[mopsus]

A lovely distant engineered balance. Good to hear the Holst which doesn't get many airings nowadays, in my experience anyway!

I notice the listing has changed the title. Holst actually named it for the last, not the first line: This have I done for my true love.

I wonder whether it has dropped out of the repertoire (I've only ever sung it in concert) because of the anti-semitic tone of some of the words? It is a fascinating poem, and seems to be quite a lot older than Sandys' collection.

I felt the balance of the broadcast was a little too distant for my liking.

[ardcarp]

As far as the Holst piece is concerned (under whatever name) I think it has been sung more at carol concerts or by amateur groups of singers on any occasion rather than as an 'anthem'. It's certainly gone out of fashion a bit. Any shades of 'anti-semitism' have passed me by! I've always been fascinated by what...in the Anglican Church...passes for an 'anthem'. It seems pretty much anything goes: psalms words, psalm paraphrase words, other biblical extracts, poems...some verging on the secular (e.g. Britten's [Auden's] Ode to St Cecilia or Bourgeois' The Plum and Wasp is Boiling in the Kitchen), native American spirituals, etc, etc. In fact, anything in the 'anthem slot' can be an anthem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INfCDaxkGgo

[oddoneout]

I notice the listing has changed the title. Holst actually named it for the last, not the first line: This have I done for my true love.

I wonder whether it has dropped out of the repertoire (I've only ever sung it in concert) because of the anti-semitic tone of some of the words? It is a fascinating poem, and seems to be quite a lot older than Sandys' collection.

I felt the balance of the broadcast was a little too distant for my liking.

I had to ramp the volume up to hear anything much and was glad the the balance between the various service participants was good so that I didn't get suddenly blasted out. However,judging by what happened later when I tried to listen to the evening concert there may have been a more widespread problem; I had to switch off in the end as the variations alternated between nothing and very loud suddenly and unpredictably. When I finally managed to get to the relevant web page the two local transmitters were reported as working normally, so I don't know what it was all about. Perhaps an FM issue as I don't use digital.

[hmvman]

I had to ramp the volume up to hear anything much and was glad the the balance between the various service participants was good so that I didn't get suddenly blasted out. However,judging by what happened later when I tried to listen to the evening concert there may have been a more widespread problem; I had to switch off in the end as the variations alternated between nothing and very loud suddenly and unpredictably. When I finally managed to get to the relevant web page the two local transmitters were reported as working normally, so I don't know what it was all about. Perhaps an FM issue as I don't use digital.

May have been an FM issue. I listened on DAB and it had a good level. The balance, as others have said, was lovely.

[mopsus]

I was listening on FM. Another family member reported problems with the evening concert later, in the form of frequent breaks in transmission during the concerto.

[oddoneout]

I was listening on FM. Another family member reported problems with the evening concert later, in the form of frequent breaks in transmission during the concerto.

That's useful to hear, as it means I can stop worrying that there's a problem with my equipment. It was frustrating not being able to hear the concert though.

[jonfan]

"Wessex" and the descant are in New English Hymnal (49 1st tune) - there is a double connection with Winchester Cathedral. The composer of the tune Alwyn Surplice (1906-1977) was organist of Winchester Cathedral from 1949 to1972,
the composer of the descant Anthony Caesar (1924-2018) was a chorister at Winchester in the 1930s and Precentor and a Canon from 1974 to 1979.

Alwyn Surplice was bound to follow a career in cathedral music with a surname like that as does Neil Hitt today, principal timpanist in the Liverpool Phil.

[ardcarp]

Going back to Holst's setting, I have just dug out my copy, and notice that he set ALL ELEVEN verses as laid out in The Oxford Book of Carols. This includes v.6 which mentions 'Jews' in a less than favourable context. The text was published in this form by Sandys in the 19th century, but probably has its origins in Medieval carols where outside the church, dance and worship probably intertwined. In Willcocks' lovely arrangement (C for C Orange) he wisely only sets the first 3 verses with a reprise of the first. As I suggested earlier, I think Holst could have pruned his setting to good effect! Just a personal opinion.

[Vox Humana]

Do you mean a completely NEW (replacement) organ or a complete overhaul of the existing....?

As far as know, it's an overhaul.

That's a shame. It really could do with a brand new one. If Worcester and Manchester can manage it, I'm sure Winchester could. I wouldn't say that the existing instrument is utterly beyond the pale, but it really is a stodgy, lumbering thing and I don't know anyone who thinks very highly of it. I spent a week at it once way back in 1970 and it felt a bit like pulling an elephant out of quicksand.

[ardcarp]

That's a shame. It really could do with a brand new one. If Worcester and Manchester can manage it, I'm sure Winchester could. I wouldn't say that the existing instrument is utterly beyond the pale, but it really is a stodgy, lumbering thing and I don't know anyone who thinks very highly of it. I spent a week at it once way back in 1970 and it felt a bit like pulling an elephant out of quicksand.

Further discussion here maybe?

http://www.for3.org/forums/showthread.php?19839-Winchester-Cathedral-Organ

(It's The Organ sub-forum.)

[Lizzie]

May have been an FM issue. I listened on DAB and it had a good level. The balance, as others have said, was lovely.

I listened again during the evening, on the bbc iPlayer, and it sounded excellent. In some ways, even better than when I was listening in the Cathedral. Maybe if you hear it again either on iPlayer, or to the repeat on Sunday, it will be improved. I do hope so, as I’m sad you couldn’t enjoy my home team to the full.