Boy and Girl Choristers R4 Today

[ardcarp]

There was a very short and wholly inadequate discussion of the boy/girl chorister thing on Radio 4's Today programme:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0001g8m

...about 2hrs 41 mins from start. David Hill was responding to a comment by Lesley Garrett:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-46472280

[doversoul1]

There was a very short and wholly inadequate discussion of the boy/girl chorister thing on Radio 4's Today programme:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0001g8m

...about 2hrs 41 mins from start. David Hill was responding to a comment by Lesley Garrett:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-46472280

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2018/dec/06/lesley-garrett-says-kings-college-choir-must-accept-girls

[cloughie]

I think I'm with Lesley Garrett on this one - no doubt others on the boards will have other views. (I have sung the unaccompanied first verse as a tenor with a SATB adult choir the last couple of years!)

[DracoM]

IME, if boys don't sing seriously between 8-14, after the pretty disruptive - for them - voice shifts, they probably won't sing seriously - ever.
Girls grow easily far more into good singing as they gain power. It's a far, far less fractious process.
Which is why boy-led choirs need nurturing and developing.

[mw963]

I thought David Hill was remarkably diplomatic, stating the practicalities that have always been obvious to some of us, but in a sensible manner that is likely to keep the howls from certain politically-correct quarters to a minimum.

I have great respect for him.....

[ardcarp]

Me too...but the item was given very short shrift by the Today editors, after David had made it to the studios!

[Old Grumpy]

I thought David Hill was remarkably diplomatic, stating the practicalities that have always been obvious to some of us, but in a sensible manner that is likely to keep the howls from certain politically-correct quarters to a minimum.

I have great respect for him.....

Agree. He was not allowed enough time to elaborate. The presenter, possibly had an "agenda" too.

I do, in some circumstances, prefer the sound of mixed or girls' soprano voices.


OG

[Serial_Apologist]

Agree. He was not allowed enough time to elaborate. The presenter, possibly had an "agenda" too.

I do, in some circumstances, prefer the sound of mixed or girls' soprano voices.


OG

I don't know if boys' voices are continuing to break earlier, as they were said to be doing back in my day, but, given today's logistical problems with getting boy choristers, mixed treble and soprano voices would seem the way to go, granted that the rounded timbral qualities of treble unisons will as a result be somewhat vitiated. We can't, after all, be sure as to what the timbral characteristics of vocal tone were in ages past when modern interpretations of mediaeval and renaissance choral music is performed or recorded today, and always make assumptions in accordance with current notions of the ideal.

[Vox Humana]

I had wondered why my Facebook newsfeed was replete with posts (all from women as it happens) telling Lesley Garrett to shut up. I had gathered that it was something to do with boy choristers. Now I know. This year is the centenary of King's adopting the nine lessons and carols service. It's a tradition, isn't it? And that's surely the point. I'll wager that most viewers and listeners want the BBC to provide them with a good slice of traditional Christmas sung by a traditional church choir, which, like it or not (and I appreciate the egalitarians won't), means boys. Yes, there is new music each year, but this hardly erodes the underlying tradition; it just stops the services from becoming mere museum pieces. If we are to update this format where do you stop? What about the people who like music with guitars and drums? I don't doubt that there are people who would like to reinvent the whole thing, but I'd prefer to stick with tradition, thank you very much.

The time allotted to David Hill (and us) by the Beeb was quite insultingly short and in the circumstances he did well. His point about Cambridge having other, mixed choirs was on the nail. If we must have a carol service with a female or mixed top line, the Beeb should broadcast the services from somewhere else that has such a choir.

[Nevilevelis]

I think girls could do better than singing Nine Lessons and Carols at Kings College, Cambridge. They're certainly privileged, but for me, not the absolute best. If you want to buy into that and be part of it so be it. Women and girls - rewrite the script. The BBC could broadcast a service from somewhere else - that would be a start, but it's such a money-spinner... (ducks for cover!)

[MrGongGong]

I had wondered why my Facebook newsfeed was replete with posts (all from women as it happens) telling Lesley Garrett to shut up. I had gathered that it was something to do with boy choristers. Now I know. This year is the centenary of King's adopting the nine lessons and carols service. It's a tradition, isn't it? And that's surely the point. I'll wager that most viewers and listeners want the BBC to provide them with a good slice of traditional Christmas sung by a traditional church choir, which, like it or not (and I appreciate the egalitarians won't), means boys. Yes, there is new music each year, but this hardly erodes the underlying tradition; it just stops the services from becoming mere museum pieces. If we are to update this format where do you stop? What about the people who like music with guitars and drums? I don't doubt that there are people who would like to reinvent the whole thing, but I'd prefer to stick with tradition, thank you very much.

I'm assuming you meant to post this to Private Eye?
or even here

http://apiln.blogspot.com

I prefer to "stick with tradition"

[BasilHarwood]

I think girls could do better than singing Nine Lessons and Carols at Kings College, Cambridge. They're certainly privileged, but for me, not the absolute best. If you want to buy into that and be part of it so be it. Women and girls - rewrite the script. The BBC could broadcast a service from somewhere else - that would be a start, but it's such a money-spinner... (ducks for cover!)

YES!

[mw963]

Predictable and silly response from Mr Going Going. I have no idea why I read (his?) posts..... In other areas it would be called click-bait.

Always amazed that people have the time to be so perverse and to contribute nothing useful.....

[MrGongGong]

Predictable and silly response from Mr Going Going. I have no idea why I read (his?) posts..... In other areas it would be called click-bait.

Always amazed that people have the time to be so perverse and to contribute nothing useful.....

Suit yourself chum

I found the Vox-inhumane comment very funny
It was satire, i'm assuming?


A traditional church choir "means boys" ?
So I guess Vivaldi is off the "traditional" menu then ?

[Vox Humana]

A traditional church choir "means boys" ?
So I guess Vivaldi is off the "traditional" menu then ?

Well, well. I didn't realise that Vivaldi had been trained in an English cathedral choir. Please do quote your sources for this most enthralling and enlightening information.