Sunday Worship from Lancing College

[oddoneout]

Sadly true


But sadly I don't think enough people really "care enough about it"
so it's inevitable

BUT there is still much to be done in other ways

I suspect that is the result of not knowing anything about why such subjects are important rather than a considered antipathy or opposition. Financial constraints and decisions only serve to reinforce that uninformed opinion. The Channel4 series 'Class of mum and dad' had a telling instance of that with one of the parents voicing her opinion that art and music were pointless subjects. Getting involved in the whole-school dance fest and other activities gave her cause to reassess that view. The school's head considers that an education that excludes the arts is not a good education, so the pupils are lucky - for now, as I'm guessing he is coming up to retirement age and any replacement is unlikely to be willing/able to continue that approach.

[DracoM]

[Ein Heldenleben]

It's interesting that public schools make so much of their music and drama provision. They know what the market wants . I don't think state school parents are any different - it's just that apart from voting every five years they have little power. Somewhat counter to the trend it's noticeable how arts and creative academy schools seem to be springing up offering precisely the opportunities everyone on this thread advocates . The problem is they are ( where I live that is ) perceived to be unacademic and they have had mixed success to put it diplomatically . Although it's a few years since my children were in the state system I have to say the music education they received at primary and , with a bit of travel , secondary level was absolutely excellent .

[DracoM]

Indeed, but it so much depends on the where and the how and often as not the price and the local council. And in rural areas, all four can be prohibitive in different ways.
........................which is why I take my hat off to motivated but stamina-sapped parents.

[MrGongGong]

I suspect that is the result of not knowing anything about why such subjects are important rather than a considered antipathy or opposition..

You are more generous than I am
I think there really IS a "considered antipathy" in many of the places where decisions are made
Given that education is about job training these days then the only things that are afforded value are ones that are seen to directly lead towards "jobs". Coupled with nonsense about "academic" and "non-academic" subjects many youngsters are completely screwed.

I sometimes go to schools where there is NO music whatsoever or ones where they do the whole years music in the space of a week.
BUT it is important NOT to assume that all private schools are wonderful and all state ones appauling when the opposite is often true.

[Vox Humana]

BUT it is important NOT to assume that all private schools are wonderful and all state ones appauling when the opposite is often true.

Many, many years ago I interviewed for a job in a (minor) independent school. I was taken round the school and eventually shown the music department, which consisted of ... (wait for it) ... an upright piano and a record player in the school gym. At least the pupils were taught to sing (via tonic solfa). I made it pretty clear that I didn't think I was suited for the job.

[oddoneout]

You are more generous than I am
I think there really IS a "considered antipathy" in many of the places where decisions are made
Given that education is about job training these days then the only things that are afforded value are ones that are seen to directly lead towards "jobs". Coupled with nonsense about "academic" and "non-academic" subjects many youngsters are completely screwed.

I sometimes go to schools where there is NO music whatsoever or ones where they do the whole years music in the space of a week.
BUT it is important NOT to assume that all private schools are wonderful and all state ones appauling when the opposite is often true.

I was thinking a bit lower down the pecking order, but even at the decision making level I am of the opinion that ignorance plays a very big part in the antipathy, although admittedly at that level the ignorance is more likely to be deliberate and from choice; facts and evidence are so inconvenient when it comes to political decision making.
I don't subscribe to the binary state/private school view but the access and opportunities when it comes to things like music are heavily weighted in the private sector's favour these days I think.

[jonfan]

The writing was on the wall for the arts when the first written National Curriculum came out under Kenneth Baker (he of B Day fame ). Their places in the curriculum had to support Maths, English or Science. Nothing else mattered. I’m Sure Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, etc. would be thrilled that their masterpieces have eventually found a purpose after all these years in being helpful to pass arithmetic tests.

[ardcarp]

It's interesting that public schools make so much of their music and drama provision. They know what the market wants

Yes, the performing arts are a 'shop window' for the independent sector (as indeed is prowess in sports). However, I'd like to think that some schools at least set great store by their music departments for the right reasons, namely:

-providing a full and rounded education through an appreciation of the arts
-developing a sense of self-awareness, self-worth and self-discipline
-offering food for the soul as well as the brain (and brawn)

...and more cynically, it is widely accepted that achievement in music improves performance in other academic subjects, yea even unto Maths and Fuzzucks.

[Serial_Apologist]

The writing was on the wall for the arts when the first written National Curriculum came out under Kenneth Baker (he of B Day fame ). Their places in the curriculum had to support Maths, English or Science. Nothing else mattered. I’m Sure Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, etc. wound be thrilled that their masterpieces have eventually found a purpose after all these years in being helpful to passing arithmetic tests.

Michael Garrick, pluus one or two other notables on the domestic jazz scene, managed to get jazz music included in the National Curriculum, though I've not idea if their efforts have subsequently proved ephemeral.

[DracoM]

Yes, the performing arts are a 'shop window' for the independent sector (as indeed is prowess in sports). However, I'd like to think that some schools at least set great store by their music departments for the right reasons, namely:

-providing a full and rounded education through an appreciation of the arts
-developing a sense of self-awareness, self-worth and self-discipline
-offering food for the soul as well as the brain (and brawn)

...and more cynically, it is widely accepted that achievement in music improves performance in other academic subjects, yea even unto Maths and Fuzzucks.

All too true.

Musc / Creative Arts / Drama are massive PR pluses for the independent sector.

I simply do not understand them being shelved elsewhere when you think of the colossal technical, psychological, and aesthetic, long term teamwork, project-based / deadline based, work-under-extreme-pressure activities - think of how many modern day work practice boxes get ticked there - and co-operation between staff / students, and often agencies from outside in the community. Any kid who came interviewing and told me he/she had been a Stage Manager, a Set-up Manager for an orchestra / band, or acted in a show would be of immediate interest.

Seems a no-brainer to me.

[teamsaint]

All too true.

Musc / Creative Arts / Drama are massive PR pluses for the independent sector.

I simply do not understand them being shelved elsewhere when you think of the colossal technical, psychological, and aesthetic, long term teamwork, project-based / deadline based, work-under-extreme-pressure activities - think of how many modern day work practice boxes get ticked there - and co-operation between staff / students, and often agencies from outside in the community. Any kid who came interviewing and told me he/she had been a Stage Manager, a Set-up Manager for an orchestra / band, or acted in a show would be of immediate interest.

Seems a no-brainer to me.

Well quite.
Like so many, my younger lad, (when free of practising his cello ) put together a Metal band.

They had find somewhere to rehearse, ( no mean feat in a Wiltshire Village if you play Metal), find suitable band members, find money for kit, get transport when they were too young to drive, book dates, write songs. They funded, made and sold merchandise, found and paid for a studio to make a CD, got played on Radio Wiltshire, negotiated with venues, did publicity , and generally learned an awful lot that has doubtless stood them in good stead whatever they are doing now. I for one would have been very happy for school to have helped out with their efforts, even with just a rehearsal room.

And so much more.
And they had a lot of actual fun, of the good clean kind, along the way, as their confidence and skills improved.

But we are in an echo chamber, sadly......

[ArpSchnitger]

What truly irks me is that there are a number of very, very good school choirs around the UK with real competence and ambition, singing services weekly and more, and I cannot for the life of me understand why the BBC does NOT become more inventive and use them.

Maybe they are starting to do so. Both Lancing and Rugby are broadcasting R4 Sunday Worship and R3 Choral Evensong this term, and Rugby have broadcast Sunday Worship on a couple of occasions in the past few years. I suspect they have been in part chosen as their choirs have as members the current BBC boy and girl choristers of the year.
The Rugby services have both been recorded already, a couple of weeks ago, specifically to avoid getting in the way of exam preparations, and will be broadcast in the final week of June. I was at the Choral Evensong recording and it will I hope come across as a very impressive first CE broadcast.

[DracoM]

Thx for heads-up on this.

[oddoneout]

What truly irks me is that there are a number of very, very good school choirs around the UK with real competence and ambition, singing services weekly and more, and I cannot for the life of me understand why the BBC does NOT become more inventive and use them.
Yes, much is happening, but a heck of a lot more is possible. The BBC has a role to play in this, and IMO is not playing it. A great shame.

I think the systematic burying of the Choir of the Year competition(like the YM competition) gives a pretty good indication of the BBC view of amateur choirs and their airwave-worthiness.