CE: Queen's Free Chapel of St George, Windsor Castle Wed, Feb 7th 2018

[mopsus]

AAMOI, can anyone explain why the BBC has broken with the 'traditional' Ash Wednesday Service from St John's?

PS: will post Ash Wednesday Order of Service over the weekend.

Ash Wednesday always used to come from St John's, but in the last 15 years or so has sometimes been from other places: St Albans and Gloucester come to mind, and I think there have been others too.

[mw963]

No, but I will moan(as I have done before) that it means Sunday will be a repeat of a repeat. If the archive is going to be used instead of live services then I can see no good reason for sticking with the usual set-up of live on Wednesday repeated on Sunday. Why not pull out another(ie different) archive one for Sunday?

Oh indeed, you're right. But as I think I've said before, I suspect the problem (apart from penny-pinching by putting Archives into what for many years was considered to be a "live relay by default" slot) is that actually the BBC probably haven't GOT that many archives, at least not prior to everything being stored on hard disk. I don't know where they got that St George's from, but my hunch that it was an off-air home recording was bolstered by the fact you could hear subtle flutter on the reeds at the start of the anthem (great build up Roger!!) and a decent BBC machine wouldn't betray such analogue artefacts, even on a tape thirty years old.

[jonfan]

Oh indeed, you're right. But as I think I've said before, I suspect the problem (apart from penny-pinching by putting Archives into what for many years was considered to be a "live relay by default" slot) is that actually the BBC probably haven't GOT that many archives, at least not prior to everything being stored on hard disk. I don't know where they got that St George's from, but my hunch that it was an off-air home recording was bolstered by the fact you could hear subtle flutter on the reeds at the start of the anthem (great build up Roger!!) and a decent BBC machine wouldn't betray such analogue artefacts, even on a tape thirty years old.

This seemed to me a genuine BBC tape with very wide dynamic range which a home recording wouldn’t cope with. I put the flutter on the reeds to Roger having pulled the Tremulant for a bar or two for special effect!? I thought everything broadcast has been saved in some format for many years now, especially live performances.
The recorded CE debate has two sides to it: archive CEs which have been heard before, and pre-recorded CEs which have not. There have been quite a few of the latter which sparked the recent debate. Great to hear CEs from the past especially if they are as good as this one. I’d like to hear the first CE with girls on the top line which came from Salisbury in 1993, as women’s rights and equality are in the news at present.

[mw963]

No, didn't sound to me as "sweet" as a 15 ips BBC tape, but yes, reasonable dymanic range, which a home-recording would have had at the time, as FM in 1988 wasn't subjected to Optimod (that was introduced for drive-time oinly in the Spring of 1989). But of course I don't know for certain the origins of the recording.

In fact I put the Salisbury Girls 1993 broadcast on Dropbox last year so that forumistas could have a listen - you should had grabbed it then, as my copy is now out of reach for a couple of months. If you really want to hear it then please contact me in mid March and I'll see that it re-appears or send you a copy privately..

[Roger Judd]

Various points need answering:–
1. The Hyperion Parry CD was made in the summer of 1987. The fact that we recorded in All Hallows, Gospel Oak, is not mentioned in the booklet, leading one distinguished reviewer to write that 'Roger Judd managed to conjure wonderful Edwardian sounds from the chapel's 1965 Harrison'. I was in fact playing a 1915 Hill, and no conjuring was required! Incidentally the instrument was in poor mechanical health, and was a nightmare as I didn't know from one moment to the next was going to work - not ideal in a fairly stressful recording situation.
2. Ardcarp is presumably referring to the Rose Gloria being sung by all the basses rather than the cantor - I don't know why, but we always did it like that.
3. The tremulant doesn't work on the big trumpets, so not guilty of creating 'flutter'!
4. Indeed the BBC does not have a large collection of archive recordings - hundreds, if not thousands, were destroyed years ago in a wanton act of audio vandalism. The Archive of Recorded Church Music does hold a vast collection, and I think the Beeb has been known to ask if it may borrow its own recordings from them. Their website is a mine of fascinating stuff, and is well-worth supporting.
RJ

[jonfan]

No, didn't sound to me as "sweet" as a 15 ips BBC tape, but yes, reasonable dymanic range, which a home-recording would have had at the time, as FM in 1988 wasn't subjected to Optimod (that was introduced for drive-time oinly in the Spring of 1989). But of course I don't know for certain the origins of the recording.

In fact I put the Salisbury Girls 1993 broadcast on Dropbox last year so that forumistas could have a listen - you should had grabbed it then, as my copy is now out of reach for a couple of months. If you really want to hear it then please contact me in mid March and I'll see that it re-appears or send you a copy privately..

Sorry mw963, I’ve not been paying attention. I have a cassette recording of the 1993 Salisbury CE and thought a good time for an airing on R3.
Thanks RJ for clarifying; great playing.

[oddoneout]

As a matter of interest was there aircraft noise on Wednesdays recording? I heard a few rumbles, but there has also been a fair amount of very high level activity in my area(so can't see the jets), so it's difficult to differentiate sometimes.

[DracoM]

Yes, Windsor is smack under the Heathrow flight path

[mw963]

Indeed, jet-engine noise is one of the "give-aways" that it is Windsor, if one happens to go into a broadcast CE blind without knowing where it's coming from.

My mother always used to say how terribly unfair it was to inflict the constant noise of aircraft on "Our Own Dear Queen" by pointing the Heathrow runway directly at Windsor Castle.

[Vox Humana]

2. Ardcarp is presumably referring to the Rose Gloria being sung by all the basses rather than the cantor - I don't know why, but we always did it like that.

Christopher Robinson's predecessor, Sidney Campbell, told me that it was a requirement (of the Dean and Canons, presumably) that the Gloria in the responses was sung full throughout. Campbell, who was friendly with Bernard Rose, had even gone so far as to ask Rose to provide him with a harmonised version of the intonation, which Rose did. It is quite different (and IMO superior) to the version which was subsequently added to the published copies. Why this was ditched in favour of a unison intonation I don't know.

[ardcarp]

Indeed, jet-engine noise is one of the "give-aways" that it is Windsor, if one happens to go into a broadcast CE blind without knowing where it's coming from.

...and road traffic noise always used to 'give away' St John's CC. It seems Christopher Robinson attracted background noise!

I think traffic past St John's noisy corner has been calmed of late...rising bollards?

Noisy locations, which even included starlings roosting in a cathedral closes, often led to recordings being done at 'quieter' but unsocial times, e.g. late at night or in early mornings.

[DracoM]

Interestingly, the recent Westminster Cathedral Sheppard In Media Vita Cd was recorded in All Hallows, Gospel Oak, and one notices how many Oxford colleges record in Merton College rather than their own patch.

Yes, the rumble of traffic is / was a constant reminder of the 'real world' in John's recordings. Ominous deep traffic noises in the Victoria Requiem a 6 conducted by GG - quite eerie at certain points reminding the listener of the after life!!!

[mopsus]

Merton offers a spacious acoustic as well as being away from traffic (no one wants to drive over the cobbles in Merton St unless they really have to). It has also been used a lot by the Tallis Scholars, and it was a casual conversation between Peter Phillips and the Chaplain, when the former was visiting to make a recording, that led to the establishment of the current choral foundation there.

[Finzi4ever]

Indeed, jet-engine noise is one of the "give-aways" that it is Windsor, if one happens to go into a broadcast CE blind without knowing where it's coming from.

My mother always used to say how terribly unfair it was to inflict the constant noise of aircraft on "Our Own Dear Queen" by pointing the Heathrow runway directly at Windsor Castle.

As has been asked on more than one occasion by visiting tourists from the US (at least apocryphally), 'Why on Earth did they build the castle so near Heathrow airport in the first place?'

[Roger Judd]

I meant to say earlier that the producer of the broadcast was Barry Rose, and that the choir was in the Nave stalls, hence the slightly less dry acoustic.

The ever-present over-flying aircraft were and are a pain. However, they are much quieter now than in 1988, believe it or not! At least BBC evensong was broadcast earlier in the afternoon than the regular daily service (5.15pm). This at least ensured that listeners didn't have to hear Concorde, which effectively blocked out all musical sound for around a minute as it came in to land at about 5.45pm every afternoon. At Mattins on Sunday morning it took off around 11.15am, but regretably never coincided (in my time) with the Mattins collect ... O God, who art the author of peace and lover of concord ...!
RJ