Dear M'sieu G. Fauré

[french frank]

Also she makes unwarranted assumptions about how much the audience know, such as assuming in the programme broadcast today that listeners had never come across any of Bach's secular cantatas.

I think it's case of Radio 3 not knowing its audience - or perhaps assuming that as the BBC does nothing to educate new audiences, the audiences progressively do know less and less.

[DracoM]

<< perhaps assuming that as the BBC does nothing to educate new audiences, the audiences progressively do know less and less. >>

Ominously perceptive and uncomfortably prophetic.

[french frank]

<< perhaps assuming that as the BBC does nothing to educate new audiences, the audiences progressively do know less and less. >>

Ominously perceptive and uncomfortably prophetic.

If Radio 3 doesn't deal in rock bottom basics, who else will? Oh, yes, Classic FM, but Radio 3 is in competion with them, isn't it?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I did check on the quote, and to be perfectly fair, she did introduce her opinion by saying "Beautiful though it is, it can [sic] sound turgid and like an academic exercise." There again, I suppose most things can [sic] if performed in that way.

Yes - I've only ever heard the programme once (a sort of R3 Sing Something Simple, and a complete waste of R3 airtime, and SM-P's considerable intelliegence) so had to deliberately check the i-Player in order to confirm DracoM's reaction. Yes "'turgid' was the word she used", but so was "beautiful" - and the real problem I had was that "it can sound turgid" is practically empty - it can be said of almost any work. But I heard this as a description of (some) performances rather than of the work itself.

The Rutter arrangement was far too sugary for my taste.

[jean]

SMP did say the Rutter arrangement was ‘lush’, and so it was - far too lush for my taste, though possibly those arpeggios were asking to be played on the harp.

[ahinton]

Yes - I've only ever heard the programme once (a sort of R3 Sing Something Simple, and a complete waste of R3 airtime, and SM-P's considerable intelliegence) so had to deliberately check the i-Player in order to confirm DracoM's reaction. Yes "'turgid' was the word she used", but so was "beautiful" - and the real problem I had was that "it can sound turgid" is practically empty - it can be said of almost any work. But I heard this as a description of (some) performances rather than of the work itself.

The Rutter arrangement was far too sugary for my taste.

Thanks for the clarification of what SM-P actually said, as well as for the welcome distinction between turgidity of performance and ditto of composition; even so, what she expressed was still her personal opinion and there remains the question as to whether listeners needed to hear that, so perhaps a few less forays into the thoughts of chairwoman SM-P might not come amiss.

Coat's on.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Thanks for the clarification of what SM-P actually said, as well as for the welcome distinction between turgidity of performance and ditto of composition; even so, what she expressed was still her personal opinion and there remains the question as to whether listeners needed to hear that, so perhaps a few less forays into the thoughts of chairwoman SM-P might not come amiss.

I agree entirely - and, whilst this was a change from presenters' usual hyperbolic enthusings after every piece, I found it both unnecessary and unwelcome. As I said, I don't regularly listen to the programme, and mainly know SM-P from Hear & Now, where her comments are much more pertinent and better informed.

[DracoM]

I'm afraid what got to me most was the implied denigration of the Cantique as Faure had written it and the essential improvement in it as re-worked by Mr Rutter: after all, she not only described perf/work as 'turgid', but also described the Cantique as an 'academic exercise' [see FF above], and I'm afraid I am still NOT entirely convinced she was talking about performances.

[jean]

...she not only described perf/work as 'turgid', but also described the Cantique as an 'academic exercise'...

She didn't, though; she said it can* sound that way.

I blame Rutter for lushing it up in the first place. I assume he was motivated by similar thoughts, or else why bother?

*I didn't really understand FF's [sic].

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Maybe Roger Wright wasn't quite as bad after all.

The way things are going ...

[DracoM]

<< she said it can* sound that way. >>, but then very clearly in what followed, she did rather more than imply that we now have the Rutter re-working to make it less...well, what? Turgid? Less of an academic exercise. Or giving musicians the chance to make 'nicer' performances? Or what?

i.e. the more one re-examines what she 'actually' said, the less convinced one might be by what she is apparently trying to say.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

*I didn't really understand FF's [sic].

Neither did I.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

i.e. the more one re-examines what she 'actually' said, the less convinced one might be by what she is apparently trying to say.

I think this is what I meant by describing the comment as being "empty". (In that anyone can say of almost any "serious" piece that it can sound turgid in certain performances, but not in the one that's about to be played.)

I'm not sure that I follow what Alpie's comment means - in what way was SM-P's comment indicative of a decline since RW left?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

This is exactly what she said:-

Now, the composer John Rutter's brilliant and lush orchestration of the Cantique de Jean Racine by Gabriel Fauré.

In its original, as beautiful as it is, the piece can sound a little bit turgid and like an academic exercise, but John Rutter's orchestration, particularly with the harp, seems to breathe new life into it.

The patronising tone of her voice only confirmed that she was effectively putting the work down. If turgidness were something to do with the performance, a re-orchestration wouldn't change a thing.

There are many turgid performances of this work, and I suspect this may have something to do with the difficulty of the piano/organ accompaniment slowing things down in performance with many amateur choirs. But this should not affect choirs of the standard we might expect on The Choir

[jean]

Neither did I.

Could it have been something to do with may being considered preferable?