CE Chapel of the Old Royal Naval College, London 29.xi.17

[DracoM]

CE Chapel of the Old Royal Naval College


Order of Service:


Introit: Beati quorum via (Stanford)
Responses: Shephard
Psalm 47 (Crotch)
First Lesson: Isaiah 52: 7-10
Office Hymn: The Church's one foundation (Aurelia)
Canticles: Noble in B minor
Second Lesson: John 17: 20-26
Anthem: Great is the Lord (Elgar)
Hymn: All my hope on God is founded (Michael) (descant John Rutter)

Organ Voluntary: Sonata in G, Op 28 (Allegro maestoso) (Elgar)


Richard Gowers (Organist)
Ralph Allwood (Director of Music)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09ggb26

[DracoM]

1. This is LIVE.
2. Members of the choir are drawn from Trinity Laban, but there are also experienced and outstanding local volunteer singers.

[Vox Humana]

Some of my favourites there. I know a lot of people sneer at Noble in B minor, but I'm very partial to it. Dare I suggest that Rutter's descant to Michael is infinitely superior to Howells's, which (IMO of course) is an overcooked turkey?

[ardcarp]

Dare I suggest that Rutter's descant to Michael is infinitely superior to Howells's, which (IMO of course) is an overcooked turkey?

I'm not sure what 'overcooked turkey' means...but it can't mean 'done to death' can it? We hardly ever hear it...unless I'm leading a very sheltered life. I don't know Rutter's descant, so maybe I do, but Howells' is deliciously unconventional.

[Vox Humana]

Howells' is deliciously unconventional.

That's a very gracious description, ardcarp. I'm afraid I think it just doesn't work - but then, I don't like descants that attract attention away from the tune. Their job is to enhance it, not swamp it. Less is more and, if you'll excuse the hyperbole, attempts to turn any last verse into an elaborate fugue or symphony invariably sound overblown (to me).

[ardcarp]

Less is more and, if you'll excuse the hyperbole

..or is it litotes?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

..or is it litotes?

Wasn't he the brother of Ophelia?

(And wasn't VH referring to his own use of "overblown" when mentioning "hyperbole", rather than "less is more"?)

[Vox Humana]

(And wasn't VH referring to his own use of "overblown" when mentioning "hyperbole", rather than "less is more"?)

Actually, it was just an acknowledgement that likening (some) descants to fugues and symphonies was a wee bit OTT. :) However, I don't think it's an exaggeration to describe such elaborately contrapuntal descants as "overblown".

[Philip]

Some of my favourites there. I know a lot of people sneer at Noble in B minor, but I'm very partial to it. Dare I suggest that Rutter's descant to Michael is infinitely superior to Howells's, which (IMO of course) is an overcooked turkey?

I agree about Noble in B minor. 'Like being chased by a pervert down an alley' is how one tenor in a choir I accompany for has described the chromaticism of the organ introduction.

I also agree about Michael, I played the Howells last verse (sans descant) tonight and it is somewhat odd.

[Dafydd y G.W.]

I agree about Noble in B minor. 'Like being chased by a pervert down an alley' is how one tenor in a choir I accompany for has described the chromaticism of the organ introduction.

I also agree about Michael, I played the Howells last verse (sans descant) tonight and it is somewhat odd.

One of those cases where the composer should have left things as they were.

Wonderful description of the Noble - thank you. Not as good a piece as the Walmisley it was modelled on, but well worth an occasional outing. (The Walmisley suffers from being oversung. Too often programmed as a default. Familiarity blinds us to its strength and originality.)

[Dafydd y G.W.]

At a good three and a half minutes Beati Quorum is really too long for an introit.

Introits on the Radio 3 broadcast are getting longer and longer, but they should be short and sweet, otherwise they distort the structure of the Office. (It doesn't help if they are then followed by a longish "welcome" chit chat from the officiant.)

It's a bit silly to sing "O Lord, open thou our lips," when you've been opening them for a good five minutes.

(The penitential introduction isn't so problematic because it is in the nature of a prepation, likewise a brief introit.)

[jean]

I agree about Noble in B minor. 'Like being chased by a pervert down an alley' is how one tenor in a choir I accompany for has described the chromaticism of the organ introduction.

Is that really the sort of language used by people in the church music world? Dear me!

[DracoM]

I think it may have been a joke...........could be wrong, of course.............

[jean]

Of course it was a joke. But the language of jokes can be revealing in ways that weren't intended.

[Alison]

Of course it was a joke. But the language of jokes can be revealing in ways that weren't intended.