CE Gloucester Cathedral Wed, 18th Oct 2017

[DracoM]

CE Gloucester Cathedral
Feast of Luke the Evangelist


Order of Service:


Introit: I sat down under his shadow (Bairstow)
Responses: John Sanders
Office Hymn: From thee all skill and science flow (Belgrave)
Psalm 103 (Turle, Walford Davies)
First Lesson: Isaiah 61: 1-6
Magnificat (Finzi)
Second Lesson: Colossians 4: 7-18
Nunc Dimittis for double choir (Howells)
Anthem: And I saw a new heaven (Matthew Martin)
Hymn: Angel voices ever singing (Angel voices) (descant - Andrew Carter)


Organ Voluntary: Come sing and dance - Triptych in honour of Herbert Howells - 1st movt. (David Bednall)


Jonathan Hope (Assistant Director of Music)
Adrian Partington (Director of Music)

[mopsus]

I think the Finzi may include the added Gloria by David Bednall which Gloucester commissioned a couple of years ago and which I heard at the 3 Choirs Festival. It has been discussed on this board in the past, so here's a chance to hear for yourself. (My own view is that regardless of the liturgical need for a Gloria, it spoils the musical structure of the existing piece, although this particular completion makes ingenious use of material from the rest of the Magnificat.)

David Bednall also wrote a Nunc which was sung at the 3 Choirs evensong alongside his completion of the Finzi. It is a very big sing though, particularly with such a long Magnificat. I'm not surprised that on this broadcast they've gone for the rather gentler Howells Nunc.

[DracoM]

Reminder: today @ 3.30 p.m.

[jean]

What's the point of telling us the hymn number when we haven't got hymnbooks?

[Pulcinella]

What's the point of telling us the hymn number when we haven't got hymnbooks?

But the congregation (if any) present would have, surely?
We do at York, and the hymn number is announced, as well as the page number in the prayer book for the psalms.

PS: Slight correction, because of hazy memory. The psalms are mentioned in the introduction/welcome before the service actually starts. I think that the hymn number is announced during the service, but perhaps it isn't if the service is being broadcast.

[Alain Maréchal]

Could anybody theologically informed advise what is the point of today's second lesson? It mentions Luke, but otherwise seems just a salutation and list of remembrances.

[ardcarp]

One of the delights of Anglican CE is the total irrelevance of the lessons...more usually the OT ones!
I heven't heard the broadcast yet, but I notice with relief that the BBC's website has a picture of Gloucester Cathedral instead of that ghastly default image.
Gloucester is an architectural treasure trove with its Romanesque nave, but a Perpendicular Gothic make-over to the choir. And a great East window.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Could anybody theologically informed advise what is the point of today's second lesson? It mentions Luke, but otherwise seems just a salutation and list of remembrances.

I am not particularly theologically informed but a quick sweep of the many Biblical commentaries on the net reveals that St Paul in this Epistle reveals thoughts on the functioning of the early church in which St. Luke was a significant figure. Sad to say at home I dozed off during the Service. What music I heard I liked but I didn't like the sound of the Cathedral makeover any more than the Prayer with its trendy Loving God , Faithful God subdivisions . Lancelot Andrews .....England hath need of thee...

[Alain Maréchal]

a quick sweep of the many Biblical commentaries on the net reveals that St Paul in this Epistle reveals thoughts on the functioning of the early church in which St. Luke was a significant figure. .

He does, but not in the section read for the lesson.

[Dafydd y G.W.]

Could anybody theologically informed advise what is the point of today's second lesson? It mentions Luke, but otherwise seems just a salutation and list of remembrances.

That's exactly what it is, and no more, so no theological import at all, tho' of minor historical interest.

A not very intelligent choice of lesson, presumably selected simply because it mentions S. Luke.

[Dafydd y G.W.]

One of the delights of Anglican CE is the total irrelevance of the lessons...more usually the OT ones!

That's because (generally speaking) the weekday lectionary for the office (and indeed Mass to some extent) involves reading through whole books of the Bible from beginning to end ("lectio continua"). The lessons do make sense in context, but the context is that you were present for the previous day's evensong, and the one before that, and the one before that (and will be for the next one). If you simply drop in for the occasional service (as Radio 3 does) lessons will inevitably seem irrelevant.

By contrast, Sunday (and festal) readings are designed to stand alone better (there is a degree of lectio continua, especially in "ordinary time", but it's massaged to reduce the problem you allude to).

[Dafydd y G.W.]

Gloucester is an architectural treasure trove with its Romanesque nave, but a Perpendicular Gothic make-over to the choir. And a great East window.

But some truly terrible boiled-sweet Victorian glass in the nave.

[Dafydd y G.W.]

That's because (generally speaking) the weekday lectionary for the office (and indeed Mass to some extent) involves reading through whole books of the Bible from beginning to end ("lectio continua").

There's a lovely example in Cranmer's original lectionary where because he applied the mechanical principle of allotting a whole chapter as lesson, regardless of sense, at some point in the middle of Acts the reader was required to say, reaching the end of both chapter and lesson, "Then up stood Peter and said, Here endeth the second lesson."

[ardcarp]

So to the music! An enjoyable CE, so thanks Gloucester. The Howells Nunc and the Sanders responses were good to hear. The Finzi Mag is...how shall I say?...an interesting piece which I've sung many times. Good in parts, perhaps. I find the repetition of certain words, e.g. 'blessed', wears a bit thin. But it's a great piece to show off Gloucester's wonderful organ, and I didn't find the Gloria (was it the one supplied by Bednall?) inappropriate. I seem to remember doing an 'Amen' from another Finzi work in the past, but I can't think what it was offhand*. Maybe someone can suggest a possible one?

The choir sounded good in that generous Gloucester acoustic. My only niggle (a personal one) was a tendency to chop off the ends of musical phrases (e.g. in the psalms) rather abruptly. But a minor thing.

* It's just come to me...the Amen from Lo the full final sacrifice....and that's not a Gloria. Silly me.

[LTFC1990]

So to the music! An enjoyable CE, so thanks Gloucester. The Howells Nunc and the Sanders responses were good to hear. The Finzi Mag is...how shall I say?...an interesting piece which I've sung many times. Good in parts, perhaps. I find the repetition of certain words, e.g. 'blessed', wears a bit thin. But it's a great piece to show off Gloucester's wonderful organ, and I didn't find the Gloria (was it the one supplied by Bednall?) inappropriate. I seem to remember doing an 'Amen' from another Finzi work in the past, but I can't think what it was offhand*. Maybe someone can suggest a possible one?

The choir sounded good in that generous Gloucester acoustic. My only niggle (a personal one) was a tendency to chop off the ends of musical phrases (e.g. in the psalms) rather abruptly. But a minor thing.

* It's just come to me...the Amen from Lo the full final sacrifice....and that's not a Gloria. Silly me.

The Gloria was indeed written by Bednall using themes from Finzi.