CE Southwark Cathedral Wed, Oct 11th 2017

[bach736]

I once managed to trace my organ tutoring lineage back to J. S. Bach. Naturally my understanding of Bach is flawless!

I'd be quite interested in seeing that.

[Vox Humana]

I'd be quite interested in seeing that.

Alas, it was so meaningless and contrived (it went through something like a dozen generations and there were often multiple branches that one could choose to support whatever conclusion one wanted to reach) that I didn't bother to keep a copy.

I'm fundamentally sceptical about lines of descent. I used to play certain pieces exactly like my lord and master used to play them, but that was decades ago. In every case my interpretations have evolved along my own lines. I take Marie-Claire Alain's interpretations of her brother's compositions with a pinch of salt for precisely that same reason (although, equally, her testimony is not to be dismissed lightly).

[ardcarp]

I once managed to trace my organ tutoring lineage back to J. S. Bach

A.H. (Daddy) Mann, organist at KCC in the first part of the 20th C, was taught the organ by someone born in the 18th (yes 18th) C. I don't know who it was. I just got the anecdote from a bass choral scholar of 1920s vintage. It was BTW, the same choral scholar responsible for the Carols for Choirs version of Once in Royal beginning on a first inversion chord. He hummed the bass line of Gauntlett's original version (as he mis-remembered it) to Daddy who then wrote it down for the first ever BBC Christmas broadcast from Kings.

I've probably said all this before. Put it down to senility.

[Vox Humana]

A.H. (Daddy) Mann, organist at KCC in the first part of the 20th C, was taught the organ by someone born in the 18th (yes 18th) C. I don't know who it was.

He was a chorister at Norwich Cathedral under Dr Zechariah Buck (1798-1879).

[Finzi4ever]

I enjoyed this service - hearty and passionate singing with a fair bit of repertoire unknown to me - particularly liked the introit. What I didn't like was the organ - through a facebook post, I have discovered it is a temporary digital organ - it was ok in the softer stuff but the voluntary was, in my opinion, awful (not the playing I hasten to add!).

terrible toaster

must sound worse in the building, since electronic recording of electronic noises often covers this up. Shame too when there are some half-decent ones around these days: perhaps it was switched to a German voicing setting for the Reger?

[DracoM]

BBC presumably knew this current organ was a temp / digital sounding distressingly like an OTT accordion at times. How long ago did they know, I wonder?
Can Southwark cognoscenti tell us how long this temp has been at work?

[mw963]

Does anyone know whose electronic "masterpiece" this organ is....?

The opening of the Reger sounded like a comedy act, I never heard the end as our mobile internet connection dropped out, I must listen on iplayer; would be interested to know whose instrument this is though if anyone has the info.

[Finzi4ever]

Does anyone know whose electronic "masterpiece" this organ is....?

The opening of the Reger sounded like a comedy act, I never heard the end as our mobile internet connection dropped out, I must listen on iplayer; would be interested to know whose instrument this is though if anyone has the info.

...even if they did know whose it was, no one is going to admit responsibility for it now after the severe pasting we've all given it (if indeed you can 'paste a toaster' - (don't try this at home, kids!). What I still find hard to fathom is a) why broadcast during the TCLewis rebuild? and more significantly b) why not choose repertoire on this occasion with far less intrusive use of the electronic - (toaster browning set to 'mildest of tans' rather than 'black & burnt as Hell')

[DracoM]

Could not agree more. Totally inexplicable.
Wonder if the cathedral musicians, listening to the recordings, winced as much as a number of listeners seem to have done?

[ardcarp]

Yes, but some 'electronic' can sound half-reasonable. I've heard Copeman-Harts and even Allens sounding sort of acceptable at 100 paces. There have been CEs in the past when temporary instruments have been used...but I can't remember when and where!

[Vox Humana]

Yes, but some 'electronic' can sound half-reasonable. I've heard Copeman-Harts and even Allens sounding sort of acceptable at 100 paces. There have been CEs in the past when temporary instruments have been used...but I can't remember when and where!

Chichester Cathedral must be a good candidate. They survived on an Allen organ for something like ten years in the '70s and '80s.

[ardcarp]

Yes in Christchurch Priory's (not a cathedral, methinks) broadcasting days (with Geoffrey Tristram??) they used a Makin (not an Allen) electronic instrument. I played it a few times in the past. It had speakers mounted on 'windmill' arms that rotated to give the effect of sound-waves generated in different phases. It's all done with clever solid state gubbins nowadays. There was always a Compton pipe organ there...but unusable. Not sure what's there now.

[Vox Humana]

Yes. I had forgotten Christchurch Priory - although I can't remember whether they ever broadcast an CE.

[subcontrabass]

Yes in Christchurch Priory's (not a cathedral, methinks) broadcasting days (with Geoffrey Tristram??) they used a Makin (not an Allen) electronic instrument. I played it a few times in the past. It had speakers mounted on 'windmill' arms that rotated to give the effect of sound-waves generated in different phases. It's all done with clever solid state gubbins nowadays. There was always a Compton pipe organ there...but unusable. Not sure what's there now.

Rebuilt 1999: http://www.npor.org.uk/NPORView.html?RI=D06714

[ardcarp]

Yes. I had forgotten Christchurch Priory - although I can't remember whether they ever broadcast an CE.

Yes, they were one of the BBC R3 CE regulars...by which I mean probably once a year. 1970s?