Choral Vespers Wed, Oct 4th 2017

[DracoM]

I found this whole 'package' bizarre.

Opener: Libre Vermeil authentic bouncy introit. Easily, for me, the best thing in the whole service.
Intro by English speaking Spaniard, in which the sacred centrality St Francis, the Virgin Mary, the Benedictine model to Montserrat were touched on - see later
Psalm - in English, but chanted as if in Latin.
Canticles - Spanish composer sung in Latin
Motet: ditto
Homily - Angela Tilby - English, then the 'Lord's Prayer' recited by same English-speaking Spaniard with interpolations by Canon Angela Tilby
Then, to crown it for me: as English and Anglican a hymn as you could wish: but, of course 'All Creatures etc ', presumably because St Francis loved animals and is always depicted at surrounded by them?

I'm afraid I got angrier - is that the right word? Maybe frustrated is better - as it went on.

As I said upthread, Montserrat Abbey has a very fine 1000+ yr old tradition in its own right / rite, has fine idiomatic and at times idiosyncratic monastic chanting, and a globally famous men and boys choir, so to have this awkward Anglican-flavoured mish-mash foisted [?] to celebrate the day became almost a parody.

Sorry. Better stop before I get even more disparaging.

[ardcarp]

OTOH the jolly bits by the singers and instruments were, well, jolly.
Is Monserrat in Catalonia?

[DracoM]

It most certainly is. 35 or so miles west of Barcelona.

[DracoM]

OTOH the jolly bits by the singers and instruments were, well, jolly.
Is Monserrat in Catalonia?

Indeed - the jolly bits were, loved 'em, but........!!

[Dafydd y G.W.]

Then, to crown it for me: as English and Anglican a hymn as you could wish: but, of course 'All Creatures etc '

Only by adoption: words based on S. Francis' Cantico del sol, and tune from the Cologne Catholische Kirchengesaenge. In its origins thoroughly Catholic and Continental!

[DracoM]

Woops - says a lot about the lacunae in my scholarship and reveals your expertise. My thanks. What a revelation! Do you think the Pilgrim's Consort knew that?

[Dafydd y G.W.]

Woops - says a lot about the lacunae in my scholarship and reveals your expertise. My thanks. What a revelation! Do you think the Pilgrim's Consort knew that?

Who can tell? May well have been aware of the Franciscan aspect, but did they realise how thoroughly oecumenical the choice of hymn was??

[mw963]

Certainly a few years ago I seem to remember that the solution to the "start-of-term-desert" that might occur during the early autumn in the Choral Evensong cycle would be covered by recordings made near the end of the previous summer term, but done "as if" they had happened in September/October.

Last winter I commented on the scarcity of "normal" cathedral relays, and the increasing number of repeats. I honestly feel that these repeats (or "archives" as the BBC prefers to call them) are chosen with the express intention of annoying me as much as possible, by straying as far as possible from a conventional cathedral evensong. It's almost as though the person choosing the Archives knows me - and my dislikes - personally.

Frankly for me the hymn was the best bit. Perhaps mercifully we were in the car driving in the Auvergne (Choral Evensong via 4G is my new toy!) so a lot of the service disappeared into the background noise of the car and the distractions of the outstanding beauty of our travels. Last week's Manchester though was a real pleasure, driving as we were along the Lot valley.

[DracoM]

Further to my postings about the Escallonia at Montserrat by way of explaining why I was surprised at their 'absence':

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SL90Nqi7BoA

or

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHX4dsSJcz0&index=12&list=RDpCBoPY7zqrk

A tiny sample.

KCC it ain't, but............anyway, you get the drift.

[jean]

It's almost as though the person choosing the Archives knows me - and my dislikes - personally...

But they sang the Victoria especially for me - and they knew I would love the pieces from the Llibre vermell which were especially appropriate for the place, even if sung by British interlopers.

[mw963]

Fair enough jean! And I have no criticism of the singing whatsoever.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Last winter I commented on the scarcity of "normal" cathedral relays, and the increasing number of repeats. I honestly feel that these repeats (or "archives" as the BBC prefers to call them) are chosen with the express intention of annoying me as much as possible, by straying as far as possible from a conventional cathedral evensong. It's almost as though the person choosing the Archives knows me - and my dislikes - personally.

I rarely venture onto the Choir Thread on my own, but I would like clarification of what you mean by " 'normal' cathedral relays" and "conventional cathedral evensong", mw963. Are you suggesting that this broadcast of Choral Vespers was somehow "abnormal" and/or "unconventional" - and if so, in what way(s)?

[jean]

Well, it wasn't a conventional cathedral evensong.

How far it is possible to stray from this model and still make it onto the CE slot hasn't been definitively established, nor has the appropriate degree of outrage to be expressed at each attempt.

I'm just as puzzled really by Draco's view that you shouldn't be broadcasting from anywhere unless with the resident choir.

[DracoM]

Q: if Choral Vespers was being scheduled by the BBC in the CE slot from Liverpool Metropolitan Cathedral of Christ the King, and the choir singing was Boston Camerata, and prayers were read / homily given by a Canon of, say, St Thomas Fifth Avenue in NYC, I wonder how the Liverpool parishioners / regulars might feel about what such a broadcast said about their cathedral and its resources, musical and clerical? Q = silly, specious, hypothetical, of course.

A = ? ..........................but the answer could be interesting too?

[french frank]

I wonder how the Liverpool parishioners / regulars might feel about what such a broadcast said about their cathedral and its resources, musical and clerical?

I'm not sure why the regular parishioners should feel it was some sort of statement by someone about the inadequacy of The Liverpool Way. The 'A' seems to be that you shouldn't invite visitors in at all if you don't want them to do things their way (presumably by agreement with the home team?).