CE RSCM Millennium Youth Choir Wed, 16th Aug 2017

[BasilHarwood]

Well, erm.................
Tallis sounded under-rehearsed and even a bit feeble.

Mathias FAR better disciplined, sung with more oomph and commitment, and a true measure of the choir's enthusiasm. Sounded fun and joyous.

The Bach didn't. Now, I truly do appreciate you have to give such a choir a real challenge, otherwise why gather for one of the courses, and indeed the Bach was such a challenge, but it sounded a bit of a scramble and uncomfortable, so much so that I seriously began to wonder if it was a good choice for the service.

I do find this comment/'review' a bit odd considering you are quite vocal (no pun intended) about getting young people singing...

[jonfan]

I do find this comment/'review' a bit odd considering you are quite vocal (no pun intended) about getting young people singing...

When Oxbridge and big city cathedral choirs with choir schools are on CE we start expecting a high standard before a note is sung. It's quite a good idea to listen 'blind' without knowing where the service is coming from and frequently far flung places with no choir school, and courses such as that run by the MYC, come up with equally impressive results. It's not very encouraging to start a review with 'Well, erm' and is not typical of Draco on these boards. Maybe his lunch on Wednesday wasn't up to standard and put him in a sour mood for CE.

[DracoM]

That Bach is a hefty, tricky piece, divisi, requiring deft and disciplined vocal gymnastic skills demanding for any ensemble. For 'young voices' - as the quote above tried to suggest - it was an enormous challenge, and yes, choirs like this must be given challenges, but in such challenges, they are likely to find what they still need to learn, and in what areas their current voices are relatively undeveloped.

That particularly applies to the men / boys who at that age - 15-23 or so - are still very much in the embryonic stage post-change no matter how brilliant their innate musicianship - and there was plenty of that on view. It's a physical thing for the men / boys, isn't it? Aspiration yes, execution...erm, well nearly, well on the right track, but....etc etc. Tenors are particularly exposed.

The Tallis I thought sounded tentative, almost as if they were virtually sight-reading it, and as another poster rightly suggested, as a piece it's not 'a given' either.

For me the Mathias felt smack on the money - young voices giving it real stick, it too is not an easy set of canticles to sing either, but the sound was bright, energetic, communicative, disciplined and in their comfort zone in ways that understandably, neither the Tallis nor the Bach did - at least, not on air.

[Cockney Sparrow]

That Bach is a hefty, tricky piece, ....................
That particularly applies to the men / boys who at that age - 15-23 or so - are still very much in the embryonic stage post-change no matter how brilliant their innate musicianship - and there was plenty of that on view. It's a physical thing for the men / boys, isn't it? Aspiration yes, execution...erm, well nearly, well on the right track, but....etc etc. Tenors are particularly exposed.

I'm not entering into the discussion of this CE, which I haven't heard but at the end of a course, presumably they look for something ambitious. I suppose dispassionate analysis of what was heard is fair enough. OTOH there is room for generosity in the context, no doubt at the same time.... However I will leave it there as to this CE.

The reason I have posted is that DracoM, you have put into words my reservation about the "Proms Youth Choir" and similar assemblies. I took a lot of trouble to get tickets for the Rattle Gerontius in Birmingham (and to travel there) - as the Proms performance was sold out by the time the disastrous RAH booking scramble stabilised. Apart from the miscasting of Mrs Rattle, the chorus was distinctly missing something I can only describe as "heft". It turned out that the choral forces in question were amalgamations of conservatoire forces.

I suppose it comes down to my expectation of choral sound for those works - and perhaps others are perfectly happy with lightweight (mostly - male) voices. I won't be attending any more live performances of works such as the Verdi Req, Beethoven 9th or Elgar Oratorios where the choral forces are such as these. Unless the reason I am going is as a supporter of an individual or Youth/ Young singers choir.

[Vox Humana]

For 'young voices' - as the quote above tried to suggest - it was an enormous challenge, and yes, choirs like this must be given challenges...

They also need to be given encouragement. Judging from what I could hear I would say that some of those singing did not have trained voices (in the physical sense) and that is something that is always going to sound more obvious with men than with women. Does it matter? Not as far as I'm concerned. I'm just glad that anyone should want to sing in a choir like this (or any other, come to that). They can always get training later, if they want. I think we should take it for what it was, congratulate them for what they achieved and move on.

[DracoM]

I'm pretty used to listening to / encouraging youth choirs / youth ensembles of various kinds.
Encouragement is one thing - I try to do it online and locally wherever possible.

IME, if young people have got themselves together and are ambitious enough to sign up for a choir in the first place, esp one as high profile as the RSCM ensemble manifestly is, then evaluation of what they achieve is part of the deal, maybe even part of their expectation?

[DracoM]

Please note that the repeat of this CE is @ 5.15 p.m. on Sunday

[Roger Judd]

I'm a little bemused by the earlier 'sturm und drang' on this thread! Of course there were rough edges - after all, the choir is made up of youngsters who probably haven't experienced the terror of the 'On Air' red light too often. I can forgive a lot when such enthusiasm for the job-in-hand is so obviously displayed, as it was throughout this service. The Tallis brought a fine devotional feel to the beginning, the psalms were extremely well sung and shaped, the Mathias had all the pizzazz necessary, and the Bach was, by any standard, sung with total commitment. Having consumate professionals in front of the choir and at the keys made for a most satisfying service broadcast ... in my opinion, of course!
RJ

[mfordy]

I'm a little bemused by the earlier 'sturm und drang' on this thread! Of course there were rough edges - after all, the choir is made up of youngsters who probably haven't experienced the terror of the 'On Air' red light too often. I can forgive a lot when such enthusiasm for the job-in-hand is so obviously displayed, as it was throughout this service. The Tallis brought a fine devotional feel to the beginning, the psalms were extremely well sung and shaped, the Mathias had all the pizzazz necessary, and the Bach was, by any standard, sung with total commitment. Having consumate professionals in front of the choir and at the keys made for a most satisfying service broadcast ... in my opinion, of course!
RJ

Hear hear. It is pleasing to have genuine experts putting the record straight on this matter.

[mopsus]

I was happy with the standard of this choir. I recall a broadcast of the RSCM youth choir (before the Millennium) where the tenors in particular sounded so horribly strained that I wished they had put some ringers into that section. This broadcast wasn't like that.

As for 'combined conservatoire' choirs, I have had mixed experiences. I went to a Brahms Requiem at the Proms a few years ago where the young chorus liked the sound of their own voices so much that they never sang quietly, except for one movement where they were sitting down.

[underthecountertenor]

As for 'combined conservatoire' choirs, I have had mixed experiences. I went to a Brahms Requiem at the Proms a few years ago where the young chorus liked the sound of their own voices so much that they never sang quietly, except for one movement where they were sitting down.

Based on experience, I wouldn't be surprised if the conductor had spent ages in rehearsal getting them to introduce dynamic contrast, only for them to return to full 'set voice to stun' mode in front of their mates in the audience, when the conductor couldn't do anything about it.