CE Winchester Cathedral Wed, April 26th 2017

[Lizzie]

Thanks Lizzie for that information. I can now understand why perhaps the organ sounded a little muddy yet the choir sounded crystal clear. I took my choir to sing in Winchester last Summer for the week, and we sang in the Nave for Eucharist. Even though you are only 30/40 feet away from the organ, it can sound distant - perhaps the bulk of it speaks South?
The Stanford was slow, but certainly performed at the speed dictated by the composer himself. Loved the psalm, and probably would have loved the Bach had I had been in the building!
Richard

Which choir? I'm there most Sunday mornings so, I'm sure I'd have heard you! Hopefully you enjoyed your week.! You're right about the organ! Lizzie

[Lizzie]

Thank you for your clarification Praeludium.



My remarks about the shortcomings of the organ sound as broadcast were referenced against the BBC recording made - as I said - by Mr Byram-Wakefield in 1989. I know it's a long time ago, but I still have the recording (with some digital glitches sadly, it was made off a Revox tuner on Sony PCM F1 recording equipment). The organ sound is quite breath-takingly good, absolute clarity without being "in yer face", clean and extraordinarily well balanced bass, and totally thrilling.

What we heard this afternoon sounded as though the organ mics (if indeed there were any) were cheap and nasty, I can't really think of anything nice to say about the sound they portrayed in the voluntary.

I realise that back in 1989 the BBC still had the time and resources to do things properly, but they also had very experienced engineers.

A comparison might be made with the way the Proms sound now (mainly pretty awful in my view, with a mean tight close little sound) which does no justice to the RAH at all. The legendary Radio 3 balancers of yesteryear had learnt how to get the best from a venue, and sadly a lot of this knowledge has been lost as time has passed by, often with (so I'm told) out-sourcing of engineering effort.

And yes Lizzie I hasten to add I did enjoy most of it, I can't say the Anthem was to my taste but the standard of the singing was exemplary, and - as I referred to in my previous - the Mag sounded slow only perhaps because we're not used to it quite like that. Was the previous discussion I mentioned about Stanford in C - I'm sure folk talked about some Mag or other and whether the beat was for minims or some other musical denomination.

Just felt for the organist in the Bach as I don't think the balance did the effort justice.

Listen to the anthem a few times, as it's not an easy one to appreciate on a single hearing and it also helps to have a copy of the words! Glad you enjoyed us though! Lizzie

[ardcarp]

So glad you posted Lizzie! Great to have a first hand account. Indeed the music a Winchester is very special, so well done to all...especially the thirteen trebles. I liked the Joe Twist anthem very much...and the treble solo.

[Lizzie]

So glad you posted Lizzie! Great to have a first hand account. Indeed the music a Winchester is very special, so well done to all...especially the thirteen trebles. I liked the Joe twist anthem very much...and the treble solo.

You knew I would! He sang it so well. It's made quite an impact since Andy brought it back with him. SCF is going to be interesting this July... Best. Lizzie

[Magnificat]

You knew I would! He sang it so well. It's made quite an impact since Andy brought it back with him. SCF is going to be interesting this July... Best. Lizzie

Lizzie,

I wish the lady Precentor had sung as well. I'm sure she is very good in all other aspects of the job but she hasn't got a decent singing voice and it spoilt this service for me.

It is very difficult for any cathedral to find clergy who can sing well these days so why not just accept this and let one of the lay clerks intone.

VCC.

[Finzi4ever]

Are you still enjoying life in your flat, or have you moved into a bungalow?

Should he not have been in 'A flat'?

[mw963]

Why do I get this feeling that jean will be on her way here now....??!!

[Dafydd y G.W.]

Was the previous discussion I mentioned about Stanford in C - I'm sure folk talked about some Mag or other and whether the beat was for minims or some other musical denomination.

Yes it was, last August:

[Bernard] Rose had firm views about the correct speed of Stanford in C. He was a chorister at Salisbury under Sir Walter Alcock, and remembered Alcock - a friend of Stanford's - telling him of Stanford's puzzlement that organists should think that 'minim=100' was intended rather than what he had written, ‘crotchet=100’. Any unfortunate DoM who broadcast the setting on Choral Evensong at the incorrect speed i.e. too fast, would soon be put right - in no uncertain terms - by a curt postcard from Oxford.

'Tis a fair point. Granted that tempo isn't an absolute thing and needs to be adjusted to take circumstances into account (drier acoustic. smaller forces, etc.) it is quite remarkable to sing a piece at twice the recommended speed (and I have heard it sung at or near minim=100). Or do people assume it's one of those cases where a crotchet was mistakenly printed for a minim? (Or possibly the plates are a bit worn nowadays so it's hard to tell whether the note is a crotchet or a smudged minim.)

[inquires]

Stanford in C as conducted by Bernard Rose and Magdalen College; from a private recording in my Archive. http://recordedchurchmusic.org/tribute-to-rose-guest

Yes it was, last August:



'Tis a fair point. Granted that tempo isn't an absolute thing and needs to be adjusted to take circumstances into account (drier acoustic. smaller forces, etc.) it is quite remarkable to sing a piece at twice the recommended speed (and I have heard it sung at or near minim=100). Or do people assume it's one of those cases where a crotchet was mistakenly printed for a minim? (Or possibly the plates are a bit worn nowadays so it's hard to tell whether the note is a crotchet or a smudged minim.)

[Dafydd y G.W.]

Stanford in C as conducted by Bernard Rose and Magdalen College; from a private recording in my Archive. http://recordedchurchmusic.org/tribute-to-rose-guest

Thank you. I make that about crotchet=80. There is such a thing as going from one extreme to another ....

[inquires]

Winchester have nailed it to perfection.

[mw963]

Thanks for unearthing the previous discussion. So indeed, what seemed slow to some of us was what was intended by dear Sir Charles.

As I said, it's a question of what one's used to. Had I heard Stanford in C for the very first time as intended I'd probably find anything else too fast....

Renewed thanks.

[Finzi4ever]

Look out for the name Joseph Zubier in times to come. At just 18, one of the best Counter-tenor voices you'll hear and set for a fine musical career! Lizzie

You're spot on with that one too, Lizzie. I had the privilege of hearing him in recital at WinCol in January - outstanding in Richard Strauss songs (which, since he's a counter-tenor, may surprise some).
Think he's off to the 'best' Oxbridge choir next year...(no names etc)

[Lizzie]

Just the small matter of exam results first of course but, yes, that's where we'll see as well as hear this fine young man. I'm proud to say I know him, and have since his time in the St Peter's Schola, under the direction of the excellent Nigel McClintock.

[omega consort]

Which choir? I'm there most Sunday mornings so, I'm sure I'd have heard you! Hopefully you enjoyed your week.! You're right about the organ! Lizzie

It is St Francis Welwyn Garden City (trebles and men as opposed to adults only). We were there 22 to 28 August - had a lovely time! We are singing in Chichester this Summer (but not Salisbury the following!).