CE Winchester Cathedral Wed, April 26th 2017

[DracoM]

Reminder: today @ 3.30 p.m.

[ardcarp]

O, how glorious! ;-)

You got there first. Just my Luckington.

[DracoM]

Just listening! I have NEVER heard Stanford in C played / sung as slowly as this! Crumbs!

[mw963]

Didn't we have a discussion about this a few months ago DracoM...? I may be misremembering, but there was certainly a discussion about something similar (canticles) and how slowly it/they had been marked by the composer....

Certainly it's like a funeral procession.....

Still enjoyable though.

[DracoM]

Liked the Twist anthem. Pretty tough to sing. Maybe that's why they chose canticles / responses so familiar?

[ardcarp]

Just listening! I have NEVER heard Stanford in C played / sung as slowly as this! Crumbs!

It was a bit of a 'slow bicycle race' but they carried it off with dignity I thought. No such brakes on the Nunc, however. I thought the men were just what a perfect Anglican back desk should be. Some real sensitivity there. Shame about drop-outs at the beginning of the Psalm. (Or was this just a local thing?)

The Bach Prelude and Fugue in G (BWV541) is one of my faves, but it is a stinker to perform when you're 'on show' so to speak. Also, Winchester organ is such a solid Anglican beast, other pieces might have shown it off much better.

[DracoM]

Drop outs and crackles here, as well as irritating atmospherics every so often. Online better but not as rich.
Enjoyed the Bach, but on balance I like my Bach played a bit more sprightly than that. The organ itself a bit of a beast to drive?

[mw963]

I think the problem for the organ was one of technical balance. In the past Winchester has been rendered excellent by BBC engineers, I thought the sound they achieved on the organ this afternoon was terrible, rough, out of focus, muddled. Quite spoiled the Bach for me, in spite of the fact it was well performed. The balance on the choir was - however - fine. Every word audible in the Psalms, good singing, good engineering.

However, compared to a recording of T Byram-Wakefield doing a Bairstow recital in 1989 it might have been a different organ.

Sadly engineering balance is not as experienced as it used to be.

[ardcarp]

'Cathedral Bach' is fine...by which I mean playing stuff for an entirely different sort of instrument from which it was intended. As everyone knows, Bach can take all sorts of treatment and come up smiling. I think a problem arises when organists try to apply historically informed practices to an instrument that just won't take it. This afternoon, I felt the bass pedal pipes were just not speaking fast enough. To be honest there was a somewhat 'unsettled' feel to the tempo. But as I hinted in post #21, it's a so-and-so to pull off under pressure. The service was accompanied beautifully.

[ardcarp]

I would say that there is only so much a performer can do when accommodating the vagaries of a particular instrument, or of particular acoustics.

I agree entirely.

[mw963]

@ Praeludium

Seeing as you appear to have joined the forum specifically in response to this Evensong, I'm wondering if you have "insider knowledge" at Winchester....?

And of course, welcome.

[Lizzie]

We might almost have heard different services here! I was lucky enough to be there and, please trust me, it wasn't in the least bit pedestrian! I haven't listened back yet so, that will be interesting. The Joe Twist anthem was brought back from Australia by our DoM after his sabbatical and has become a great favourite at the Cathedral, and the Choir really does 'own' it, difficult though it is. Joe is very talented and that piece particularly evokes the feeling of the Outback, even though he told me he's a city boy and has never gone Bush. I thought the prayers and the anthem complemented eachother so well, remembering those many displaced, desperate and afraid. The Mag didn't sound slow, in situ, but the word 'dignified ', used earlier seems very apt. The service was sung in the Nave, not in Quire and it's a big old acoustic to manage, without it becoming muddied by speed. As always, I'm so intensely proud of each and every one, Musicians and Clergy alike, and especially as we're down to thirteen boys at the moment, singing their hearts out. Hopefully you all enjoyed the annual Winchester offering, despite various reservations!

Remembering back to Winchester College a few weeks ago... Look out for the name Joseph Zubier in times to come. At just 18, one of the best Counter-tenor voices you'll hear and set for a fine musical career!

Best. Lizzie

[omega consort]

Thanks Lizzie for that information. I can now understand why perhaps the organ sounded a little muddy yet the choir sounded crystal clear. I took my choir to sing in Winchester last Summer for the week, and we sang in the Nave for Eucharist. Even though you are only 30/40 feet away from the organ, it can sound distant - perhaps the bulk of it speaks South?
The Stanford was slow, but certainly performed at the speed dictated by the composer himself. Loved the psalm, and probably would have loved the Bach had I had been in the building!
Richard

[DracoM]

Every other week, or so it appears, those present and those listening have differing takes on the services. Absolutely natural, particularly given the very different natures of choirs, and particularly acoustics and relationship between singers / organ / microphones / the wide open spaces. Engineering of such variables must be a kind of nightmare. I always admire the on-the-spot expertise with all those built-in adventitious happenings.

[mw963]

Thank you for your clarification Praeludium.

My remarks about the shortcomings of the organ sound as broadcast were referenced against the BBC recording made - as I said - by Mr Byram-Wakefield in 1989. I know it's a long time ago, but I still have the recording (with some digital glitches sadly, it was made off a Revox tuner on Sony PCM F1 recording equipment). The organ sound is quite breath-takingly good, absolute clarity without being "in yer face", clean and extraordinarily well balanced bass, and totally thrilling.

What we heard this afternoon sounded as though the organ mics (if indeed there were any) were cheap and nasty, I can't really think of anything nice to say about the sound they portrayed in the voluntary.

I realise that back in 1989 the BBC still had the time and resources to do things properly, but they also had very experienced engineers.

A comparison might be made with the way the Proms sound now (mainly pretty awful in my view, with a mean tight close little sound) which does no justice to the RAH at all. The legendary Radio 3 balancers of yesteryear had learnt how to get the best from a venue, and sadly a lot of this knowledge has been lost as time has passed by, often with (so I'm told) out-sourcing of engineering effort.

And yes Lizzie I hasten to add I did enjoy most of it, I can't say the Anthem was to my taste but the standard of the singing was exemplary, and - as I referred to in my previous - the Mag sounded slow only perhaps because we're not used to it quite like that. Was the previous discussion I mentioned about Stanford in C - I'm sure folk talked about some Mag or other and whether the beat was for minims or some other musical denomination.

Just felt for the organist in the Bach as I don't think the balance did the effort justice.