Commissioning a piece for an ensemble

[DracoM]

How do you go about preparing a commission for an ensemble?

eg:
- at what point does the commissioner have first sight of the draft piece?
- at which point does the commissioner lose control of the piece's composing?
- what happens if the ensemble dislikes the piece or finds it too easy / difficult?
- how easy /difficult is it to re-jig a commission in the light of any of the above?

Any other advice much appreciated.

[Richard Barrett]

How do you go about preparing a commission for an ensemble?

A contract is drawn up between commissioner and composer, in which various aspects of the eventual work may (or may not) be specified: instrumentation, duration, date for delivery of score and parts, degree of difficulty maybe, if this is an issue, date of first performance, exclusivity period, rights to first recording, and whatever else the commissioner deems to be important. The commission fee is generally divided into two halves, one to be paid on signing of the contract (at which point the commissioner "loses control of the piece's composing"!) and the other on delivery. If the ensemble finds the piece unsatisfactory in any way and this does not involve a clear breach of contract that's just bad luck. The ensemble of course is also bound by the terms of the contract. In my experience, any deviations from the strict terms of the contract can be dealt with by negotiation, ie. without recourse to the law. The basic idea is that if you're sufficiently interested in a composer's work to commission him/her, you're going to go along with whatever he/she chooses to produce.

(If you want to contact me about this by PM I can give you further advice.)

[mw963]

Or just perform something in the existing repertory....?

Seriously, it's a very interesting subject from what's been written. But seems terribly risky, unless one is good at enjoying "new clothes".

Certainly throughout my life the words "BBC New Commission" have taken on ominous overtones.

But then maybe had I been around in the eighteenth century I'd have stalked out of the first performance of St Matthew's Passion!

[ardcarp]

I think the 'pre-commissioning' research is quite important. At extreme ends of the scale, approaches to either Harrison Birtwistle or Karl Jenkins might not produce what you are after. In other words, approach a composer whose work you know. Topically, many ensembles approached the recently departed Gordon Langford knowing they would get a well-crafted piece that wouldn't frighten the horses. Gordon Jacob was another such.

Also, having decided upon a composer, make sure he/she knows what to write for, e.g. a good amateur group, semi-pro, etc, etc. It would even be reasonable to say something along the lines of "We've got a fine string section, but don't give the second clarinet anything too demanding". I guess the most 'commissioned' pieces we hear on radio are from King's College Choir at Christmas. Some carols are heard once and disappear, but a few stick, notably The Lamb.

[Richard Barrett]

At extreme ends of the scale, approaches to either Harrison Birtwistle or Karl Jenkins

You think those are extreme ends of the scale? Well, Karl Jenkins might be at one extreme end of the scale I suppose.

I'm interested, and slightly alarmed, to see that the responses here seem to have in common the idea that commissioning a new work is about knowing exactly what you want and getting exactly what you paid for. If commissioning had always been based on that kind of transaction there would be no Bach, no Mozart, no Beethoven, quite apart from almost no interesting 20th and 21st century music. What happened to composers having the freedom to pursue their music according to what they feel are its own imperatives, and performers taking up whatever its new challenges might be with enthusiasm and imagination?

[ardcarp]

I know what you mean. But there are probably different levels of commissioning. If the BBC Symphony Orchestra commissioned a piece, then it would be fair game if what emerged from the composer's pen were extremely challenging, maybe highly unorthodox. (One thinks of Stravinsky's response to a commission from The Boston SO...The Symphony of Psalms....with no upper strings.) However if a school or a choral society were to commission a piece, then it would be fair to expect it to be performable. (There are examples too of famous performers refusing to play works they have commissioned...I just can't think of them at the moment!) So yes, the composer's freedom and artistic integrity are pretty important... but so is craftsmanship.

[Bryn]

What happened to composers having the freedom to pursue their music according to what they feel are its own imperatives, and performers taking up whatever its new challenges might be with enthusiasm and imagination?

Éclairs sur l'au-delà... ? No piano or Ondes Martenot were conditions of the commission, IIRC.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

But would a school or (amateur) choral society commission a work from a composer whose work they didn't know, ardy? Would anyone commission something from Birtwistle and expect it to sound like a piece by Jenkins (or vice versa)? Could they afford Birtwistle (or, for that matter, Jenkins)?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Éclairs sur l'au-delà... ? No piano or Ondes Martenot were conditions of the commission, IIRC.

Wasn't that also the case with Chronochromie, with Strobel making this very clear? (Attention, Messiaen! Cette-fois-ci, pas d'onde, pas de piano!)

[Bryn]

Wasn't that also the case with Chronochromie, with Strobel making this very clear? (Attention, Messiaen! Cette-fois-ci, pas d'onde, pas de piano!)

Yes, but ISTR Richard holds Chronochromie in high regard, whereas ... .

[Richard Barrett]

if a school or a choral society were to commission a piece, then it would be fair to expect it to be performable. (...) So yes, the composer's freedom and artistic integrity are pretty important... but so is craftsmanship.

If a school or a choral society were to commission a piece they should certainly expect it to be performable by those performers, otherwise what's the point? This will be enshrined in the contractual relationship between commissioner and composer. I don't really understand what you seem to express as a dichotomy between freedom and integrity on one hand and craft on the other.

As for Messiaen, he was notorious for overstepping the terms of his commissions (and overshooting his deadlines by years in several cases). But as I said in my first post to this thread, instrumentation is bound to be a factor in any commission. If a string quartet commissions a piece they don't want to receive one with a tuba part the composer fancied adding to it. But that isn't quite the same as the point about the performer not liking the piece. You don't have to think of examples of that, ardcarp, I have a couple of personal examples of my very own. But if the work has been composed according to the terms of the contract the commissioner still has to pay up!

[Tony Halstead]

If a school or a choral society were to commission a piece they should certainly expect it to be performable by those performers, otherwise what's the point? This will be enshrined in the contractual relationship between commissioner and composer. I don't really understand what you seem to express as a dichotomy between freedom and integrity on one hand and craft on the other.

As for Messiaen, he was notorious for overstepping the terms of his commissions (and overshooting his deadlines by years in several cases). But as I said in my first post to this thread, instrumentation is bound to be a factor in any commission. If a string quartet commissions a piece they don't want to receive one with a tuba part the composer fancied adding to it. But that isn't quite the same as the point about the performer not liking the piece. You don't have to think of examples of that, ardcarp, I have a couple of personal examples of my very own. But if the work has been composed according to the terms of the contract the commissioner still has to pay up!

I have heard from a friend who is a professional composer that the 'standard' price of a commissioned work on 2 staves ( so, a piano solo, organ solo or a duet for 2 instruments or voices) is £100 for 1 minute's music.
SO... a 1 minute piece for e.g. a 'classical chamber orchestra' with 2 flutes, 2 oboes, 2 clarinets, 2 bassoons, 2 horns and strings (total 16 staves) would therefore be £800. A 5-minute piece would cost £4000!
Very good value, I think, unless the actual music turned out to be c##p!

[ardcarp]

Apropos of nothing in particular, Repton Preparatory School commissioned a choral and an orchestral piece respectively from Herbert Sumsion and Gordon Jacob. Not towering figures of the 20th Cent avant garde. But I guess the school knew what it was likely to get. (The choral piece incidentally is a setting of the Evening Canticles and is widely used by cathedral choirs.)

[Finzi4ever]

Apropos of nothing in particular, Repton Preparatory School commissioned a choral and an orchestral piece respectively from Herbert Sumsion and Gordon Jacob. Not towering figures of the 20th Cent avant garde. But I guess the school knew what it was likely to get. (The choral piece incidentally is a setting of the Evening Canticles and is widely used by cathedral choirs.)

Not quite: the Sumsion is the well-known anthem: They that go down to the sea in ships ?1979
Sorry to be a pedant.

[Richard Barrett]

I have heard from a friend who is a professional composer that the 'standard' price of a commissioned work on 2 staves ( so, a piano solo, organ solo or a duet for 2 instruments or voices) is £100 for 1 minute's music.
SO... a 1 minute piece for e.g. a 'classical chamber orchestra' with 2 flutes, 2 oboes, 2 clarinets, 2 bassoons, 2 horns and strings (total 16 staves) would therefore be £800. A 5-minute piece would cost £4000!

Unfortunately, though, it doesn't work quite like that! Scaling up for larger performing resources and longer durations is unfortunately not linear in that way. (Otherwise I would have received a cool £54 000 for the last work I finished, whereas the actual amount was 7 000 euros.) Also there's no such thing as a "standard" commission fee. They vary widely according to who's doing the commissioning, which country they're in, who the composer is, and so on. Often I'm asked "how much do you want?" for a particular commission, and when I name a figure the reply is sometimes a polite version of "you must be joking", while at other times the commissioner agrees so quickly I kick myself for not having asked for twice as much.