St Paul's Cathedral admits first woman to choir

[jean]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-39120557

[Cockney Sparrow]

There was an interview with the newly appointed lady on R4 Today programme at about 8.40am this morning.

[DracoM]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/01/st-pauls-appoints-first-full-time-female-chorister-in-1000-year-history

[jean]

'Team of clergymen', indeed! Surely there were some women involved in the appointment process!

[DracoM]

OK, so what's the collective noun for a mix of genders in church terms?

[jean]

Clergy?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

In the longer term, I hope the solution found at York Minster and other cathedrals will be adopted.
Otherwise it is likely that the boys will vanish.

[jean]

We're talking here about what I believe they call the 'back row', alpie.

[DracoM]

In the longer term, I hope the solution found at York Minster and other cathedrals will be adopted.
Otherwise it is likely that the boys will vanish.

Share those views. We recently had the Minster choir at a local festival, plus ladies.

[jean]

What has the possible disappearance of boys got to do with the subject of this thread?

[Pulcinella]

Share those views. We recently had the Minster choir at a local festival, plus ladies.

???

New to York, but services I've been to so far have been either girl choristers or boy choristers, so I'm not sure which Minster choir you refer to!

https://yorkminster.org/worship-and-choir/choir-and-music.html

This is perhaps not entirely up to date: there is a 'lady' on the 'back row'.

Byrd à 5 and Allegri Miserere on the menu for 5:15 Sung Eucharist with Imposition of Ashes this afternoon.

(Apologies, jean, for staying off topic wrt St Paul's.)

[DracoM]

Minster - women on back row., whatever is on the front row.

[jean]

Well, yes.

So what exactly has the presence of women on the back row got to do with the possible 'vanishing' of boys? Can you explain what it is you're agreeing with here?

...I hope the solution found at York Minster and other cathedrals will be adopted.
Otherwise it is likely that the boys will vanish.

Share those views. We recently had the Minster choir at a local festival, plus ladies.

[jean]

...there is a 'lady' on the 'back row'.

I've noted several women altos in cathedrals, but I'm not sure if they weren't just depping - but even then, I don't think the the St Paul's appointment is the first of a woman as a full member of the choir.

Maybe it's because an adult woman was appointed to a cathedral where there is still no girls' choir? Or maybe it's newsworthy because it's London.

(Apologies, jean, for staying off topic wrt St Paul's.)

Don't apologise! I am still wondering how the vanishing of boys got on to this thread.

On adult women altos, here is Iestyn Davies, back in 2011:

A flurry of female altos abound that could out-sing a countertenor at every turn. If all lay clerk alto positions were open to both sexes it would become very clear, very quickly that in general women have far stronger and far more reliable voices than male falsettists. But, what may have begun hundreds of years ago as an arguably sexist stand point from the Church has developed today into a unique and very British tradition, without which the likes of Alfred Deller and the revival of the countertenor voice as a viable instrument on the concert and operatic stage would be very difficult to imagine.

But there are many fine countertenors even from countries without the all-male English cathedral tradition.

.

[Caussade]

I've noted several women altos in cathedrals, but I'm not sure if they weren't just depping - the St Paul's appopintment is as a full member of the choir, maybe the first?

Or maybe it's newsworthy because it's London.

Don't apologise! I am still wondering how trebles of either sex got on to this thread.

Guildford have I think had a female alto for a while. And I'm sure Caroline Trevor sang at St Paul's as an alto until quite recently - maybe she wasn't a full vicar choral. It's probably the 'iconic' status of St Paul's which makes this newsworthy to whoever decides whether things are newsworthy or not.