Originally posted by DracoM
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It doesn't matter how careful the inverted commas - I'd say the traditions you cite don't produce one sort of sound. -
FGS, the word 'continental' in this context was applied to the sound delivered by West Cath / John's back in the day by many, and I was merely asking if anyone could help out defining, assisting in discussing.
I do not pretend to be an authority. I was merely seeking info.
I liked 'imitating oboes'.Last edited by DracoM; 30-11-16, 19:18.Comment
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In my view, an important part of the 'continental' sound is that those choirs almost always have boys on the alto part, not falsettists, which colours the sound of the whole choir, and distinguishes it from that of most British choirs.My boxes are positively disintegrating under the sheer weight of ticks. Ed ReardonComment
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Thank you.
I did wonder. boys singing alto is certainly more a feature of 'continental' ensembles where the prep / choir school > secondary school age split does not or more rarely happens, and boys feel they wish to continue singing for longer in the ranks right up to adn through the 'break' / change.
St T's NYC can produce a similar richness in some pieces where the boys join the adult altos.Comment
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There has been some misunderstanding in this thread, it seems. You are absolutely right - 'continental tone' was a term in the 60s and 70s and, as you say, was used particularly of Westminster Cathedral and St John's Cambridge. The point was not that those choirs (and there were one or two others - Canterbury was thought quite 'continental' by some) sounded like the (various) choirs on the continent but they were thought closer to that soundworld than the traditional Anglican one.Originally posted by DracoM View Post
As to boys being expected to imitate the sound of others in the choir, that was certainly not the approach of Allan Wicks at Canterbury.Comment
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In the late '70s Coventry Cathedral choir had boy altos and the sound was very distinctive - quite similar to George Malcolm's lot. I don't think I've heard them since. Are they still so constituted?Originally posted by DracoM View Post
One factor in the sound that boys make must surely be the influence of the Director of Music. But is it always an intentional influence? The DoM of a notable pile under whom I worked for a while in my youth had the most God-awful singing voice of any choirmaster I've heard. (He'd had a few lessons once, but had given up after hearing a tape of himself!) I never heard him attempt to impose any specific tone on his boys, but by virtue of vowel sounds that he insisted upon, and mouth positions, he produced a distinctive sound that was recognised as quintessentially his. At their best his boys sounded very "grown-up" and not at all childlike. I have noticed that my own choirs have tended to produce a consistent tone without any conscious attempt on my part. It seems to be something that just happens. I feel sure that a DoM's speaking voice and personality must be a vital influence in the resulting tone of a choir.Comment
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Thx for interesting physical details. I think I would endorse some of those notions of voice change linked to mouth / jaw positions / imitation of lads around me from my own experience as treble.Comment
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I vaguely recall reading somewhere that Howells intended the alto part(s) in the SA sections of his Collegium Regale Magnificat (but not the rest of the piece??) to be sung by boys. There would be a certain musical sense to this., but I don't think I ever heard King's perform it that way.Originally posted by DracoM View PostComment
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No, I'm pretty sure they don't have boy altos now. Chester also had them in the past, I think.Originally posted by Vox Humana View PostMy boxes are positively disintegrating under the sheer weight of ticks. Ed ReardonComment
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They certainly still had boy altos in the first few years of this millennium, in the time of the highly talented Rupert Jeffcoat, when I made a recording with them.Originally posted by Miles Coverdale View Post
Ely back in the Wills era was regarded possibly politely as 'continental'...Comment
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They broadcast Britten's Ceremony of Carols; and it was the sort of sound Britten would, I think, have liked very much. Not the 'plummy chorister' sound at all, but quite gutsy.Ely back in the Wills era was regarded possibly politely as 'continental'...Comment
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Yes, and am I not right, one of the first recordings of 'Ceremony' was by a DANISH ensemble and sounded deffo NOT 'plummy'. etc.Comment
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I have to say that I very much doubt this. I had composition lessons from Howells for a while and this doesn't ring true. Howells was very particular in attempting to convey his wishes. One only has to note how his performance directions are almost never a simple "Allegro" or "Andante", but are a compound direction of some sort (e.g. the opening of the Stabat Mater: "Quasi lento: passionato ma tristamente". If he wanted the SA sections sung only by boys, I feel sure that he would have scored them explicitly for trebles in two parts - as he did the opening of the Gloucester Service.Originally posted by Dafydd y G.W. View PostLast edited by Vox Humana; 02-12-16, 01:56.Comment
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You're probably right (I wish I could remember where I read/heard this - possibly I just imagined it!), though it is worth noting that Howells does explicitly score for two trebles in Coll. Reg. too (on the upper stave), and that in the MS the label "altos" for the part on the second stave looks from the colour of the ink as if it's a later addition - hard to tell, however, whether it is in a different hand.Originally posted by Vox Humana View PostComment
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I prefer not to use the word 'continental' in talking about the Westminster Cathedral (George Malcolm et al) or St john's College (George Guest) sound. I think that 'open' is a better word. Another early pioneer was Michael Howard at Ely (1953–58). There is a totally wonderful Argo LP Music for the Feast of Christmas, which at the time it was recorded was a bit of a sensation. For another example of a vivid treble sound listen to Christopher Robinson's recording of Elgar's From the Bavarian Highlands with his Worcester Cathedral choir for Chandos. CR worked similar miracles at Windsor.
Before I moved to St Michael's Tenbury and had my own choir for the first time, I spent several hours with George Guest sitting in on chorister rehearsals and talking to him about training boys' voices. Much hinged on good breathing (obviously), and forming good vowel sounds, so that texts were properly coloured. Allied to this were the warming-up exercises - I remember two octave arpeggios which started on the G below middle C, and the most spectacular one that started on the E flat just above mid. C, went up two octaves, and then down three! I followed GG's example at Tenbury - I don't think we made a sound like St John's, but it was a lively and open sound throughout the range.
As an aside, as I'm writing this, an extraordinary CD is playing - Aksel Rykkvin is singing totally wonderfully a disc of arias with the OAE directed by Nigel Short (Signum Classics) - completely glorious treble voice - buy your copy NOW!
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