That 'continental' sound

[DracoM]

In the days of George Guest at John's and a succession of DOMs at the Drome, much was said about the 'continental sound' of the trebles both foundations nurtured.

This involved a depth of tone, and an edge in projection that many [most?] other UK foundations did not teach.

From those who know / were part of such 'continental-led' ensembles, HOW did the DOMs achieve this distinctive style? e.g. did it start with the audition process itself, or.....?

I am prompted to this by repeated listening to [a] the current John's ensemble and [b] recordings from the same foundation decades ago under GG.

[ardcarp]

I seem to remember a (maybe apocryphal) story that George Guest asked the boys to sing more like oboes than flutes. As for training a children's choir, once a tradition has set in, any newcomers quickly latch on. However, ab initio, one has to find an individual who produces the sound you want (be it head voice or chest voice) and use that as the example to be followed. This applies to adult choirs too, especially with respect to vowel sounds. Surprising how quickly a tradition changes though. Has anyone heard NCO in the flesh lately?

[light_calibre_baritone]

About time that the NCO sound changed IMHO; I don't think children pushing such a chesty sound is a) a very nice sound (sounds like wobbly old opera mezzo-soprani) and b) is overly good in terms of a natural, unforced sound... A voice must go where it should naturally, with no hint of a forced or 'created' sound - this freedom is often achieved by not listening to oneself or copying other singers sounds; the copying is how this 'continental' sound must've started (as ardcarp said).

Tho do trebles on the continent actually sound like that? Can't say I've heard any recently...

I've also never heard that phrase in the biz really (although I've only been in said biz for about 8 years!)... I presume the idea of the boys singing the alto part at the Drome is more the sound we're talking about?

[DracoM]

Not necessarily: suggest a listen to many European e.g. a number of high profile German ensembles- e.g. Regensburg DomSpatzen, Danish, Ausrtrian eg Vienna Boys , even Italian choirs led by boys to hear that rich sound.

Like the idea of 'oboe-imitation'.

[Vox Humana]

Not necessarily: suggest a listen to many European e.g. a number of high profile German ensembles- e.g. Regensburg DomSpatzen, Danish, Ausrtrian eg Vienna Boys , even Italian choirs led by boys to hear that rich sound.

Not being a singer, I would not dare to comment on how it might be cultivated, but I have to say that I never thought that there was much similarity between George Malcolm's boys at Westminster and Guest's at John's - except insofar as neither sounded remotely like Willcocks's boys at King's (whose sound I loved - in certain repertoire). Nor did I think that either choir sounded like real continental boys - although I wonder whether native vowel sounds might perhaps have something to do with that.

[DracoM]

..............hence the inverted commas round 'continental' in the OP.

[Miles Coverdale]

I'm sure native language has a lot to do with it. Some may be interested this recording of a Giovanni Gabrieli Magnificat made by the Capella di Treviso in 1954. It makes Westminster Cathedral under George Malcolm sound positively restrained. It's a WeTransfer download, in case anyone was wondering.

https://we.tl/Ebrhfi4f8A

[jean]

Very interesting - that's the sort of sound I think of as 'continental' - but it's really quite specifically Italian; edgy, straight, with a tendency to go flat. It's not like the Vienna Boys at all, or even the Regensburg ones, imo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE-d0QOAaxg

Sadly there don't seem to be too many Italian boys singing these days, but I did notice that adult female amateur singers produced something approaching the Treviso sound.

[ardcarp]

Very interesting

Very something. Unmusical?

[jean]

...edgy, straight, with a tendency to go flat...

And shouty, I meant to add.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

...edgy, straight, with a tendency to go flat...And shouty

Somebody call?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Profuse apologies to jean - I clicked on "Edit Post" instead of "Reply with Quote", and ended up messing her post up. In the absence of an "Undo" facility, I hope I've restored the original.

[DracoM]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs7idD5Nvs0&index=5&list=RDtdLwbdfINnU

Prefer this as a specimen of the Domspatzen sound.

[jean]

Maybe, but does it sound anything like the singing under George Guest at John's and a succession of DOMs at the Drome?

I don't think so!

[DracoM]

I agree. Can I remind you about my very careful use of the inverted commas?