Psalms at St Paul's

[Guest]

Having recently moved (back) to London on a permanent basis I have started to avail myself of the choral music on a weekday evening at various establishments (mostly Evensong but Westminster Cathedral gets a look-in too).

I've noticed that St Paul's doesn't opt for the BCP psalms of the day which takes you through the 150 psalms every month but seems to have spread the 150 across the two months of August and September, hitting the halfway point of Psalm 78 on the last day of September (as opposed to the traditional "15th Evening").

Can anyone provide a reasonable explanation other than Mr Carwood wanting to avoid tiring out the boys?

I know from time spent in a Welsh cathedral that they spread the psalms over 10 weeks instead of 30 days but that is because the Church in Wales wrote its own Prayer Book in 1984. I think I'm right in saying that St Paul's is not in Wales.

Any thoughts?

[Chris Watson]

http://bfy.tw/84Xi

[mw963]

http://bfy.tw/84Xi

Am I alone in feeling faintly patronised by Chris' response?

Not only did it not tell me the answer, but a simple specific link might have been more appropriate, and indeed more helpful.

Maybe my reaction is simply down to my irritation with the all-pervasive know-it-all tone of many of the contributors to this forum.....

[Pulcinella]

Am I alone in feeling faintly patronised by Chris' response?

Not only did it not tell me the answer, but a simple specific link might have been more appropriate, and indeed more helpful.

Maybe my reaction is simply down to the general rather know-it-all tone of this forum.....

No, you are not alone.
I hope that, like me, you occasionally (often?) learn something from the know-it-alls, regardless of their sometimes unfortunate tone, but I hope that my contributions add to the general knowledge in a friendlier way.

[Chris Watson]

Sorry to offend, but I think assuming that Andrew is being lazy rather than finding the answer by a simple bit of Googling got the answer it deserved!

[Pulcinella]

Sorry to offend, but I think assuming that Andrew is being lazy rather than finding the answer by a simple bit of Googling got the answer it deserved!

I don't think any assumption of laziness came into it. Consideration for the singers was what I understood the comment to mean.
It was a simple question from someone unfamiliar with different ways of treating the psalms, and it deserved a simple answer.
I'm not convinced that such an answer has yet been given: I didn't find one readily from the google hits or I would have posted it.
Sorry if that now sounds unfriendly.

[Alain Maréchal]

Googling "Chris Watson" in order to discover something about his new appointment (elsewhere announced) advises me he could be a sound recordist or a politician. Googling me doesn't help either - although my photograph does appear, a long way down the page. We both have common names. Google is very fallible, which is why this forum is a useful source of information.

[Chris Watson]

You certainly have nothing to apologise for - I just found the original question rather snide, and so easily answerable that it wasn't worth typing. The Common Worship lectionary is not new, and should come out as the top hit on that Google search. I've always found Let Me Google That rather funny, btw.

[Alain Maréchal]

The Common Worship lectionary is not new, and should come out as the top hit on that Google search.

You are assuming that the original questioner knows what to type in the search box. He may not. I did not.
<<I've always found Let Me Google That rather funny>>. The humour is found where?

[Chris Watson]

I was paid once by the Beeb for some work done for them by CW sound recordist. Had to give it back, sadly. He did a wonderful program a couple of years ago, recording the sounds Britten would have heard on his walks round Aldeburgh.

[light_calibre_baritone]

I was paid once by the Beeb for some work done for them by CW sound recordist. Had to give it back, sadly. He did a wonderful program a couple of years ago, recording the sounds Britten would have heard on his walks round Aldeburgh.

I always think of you, but not in a weird way ;-), when the other CW pops up on R4... I thought the Google post was quite funny - it's not an overly hard subject to research, and knowing about BCP texts etc clearly shows some liturgical knowledge!

[Roger Judd]

At St George's Windsor we used to sing all 150 psalms (except 58). There were several reasons for doing this. When the daily singing of Mattins stopped, the choir 'lost' half the psalter. The Precentor of the day cunningly divided the 149 psalms into two groups, split between the now said Mattins and Evensong. He did it in such a way that each service had a more-or-less similar length chunk of psalmody, even to the extent, shock, horror, of cutting Psalm 78 in half! When Psalm 150 was reached we went back to the beginning, but with the rota reversed. So, for example, rota 1 would have been Pss 1 & 2 in the morning, and Pss 3 & 4 at Evensong, and rota 2 would be t'other way round. I think Windsor still follows a similar plan. I don't suppose that is of any interest whatsoever, but now y'know!
RJ

[underthecountertenor]

Having recently moved (back) to London on a permanent basis I have started to avail myself of the choral music on a weekday evening at various establishments (mostly Evensong but Westminster Cathedral gets a look-in too).

I've noticed that St Paul's doesn't opt for the BCP psalms of the day which takes you through the 150 psalms every month but seems to have spread the 150 across the two months of August and September, hitting the halfway point of Psalm 78 on the last day of September (as opposed to the traditional "15th Evening").

Can anyone provide a reasonable explanation other than Mr Carwood wanting to avoid tiring out the boys?

I know from time spent in a Welsh cathedral that they spread the psalms over 10 weeks instead of 30 days but that is because the Church in Wales wrote its own Prayer Book in 1984. I think I'm right in saying that St Paul's is not in Wales.

Any thoughts?

If you've been to evensong at various London establishments, how can you have failed to notice that Westminster Abbey (to take but one example) doesn't follow the BCP psalm cycle either?

[mopsus]

At St George's Windsor we used to sing all 150 psalms (except 58). There were several reasons for doing this. When the daily singing of Mattins stopped, the choir 'lost' half the psalter. The Precentor of the day cunningly divided the 149 psalms into two groups, split between the now said Mattins and Evensong. He did it in such a way that each service had a more-or-less similar length chunk of psalmody, even to the extent, shock, horror, of cutting Psalm 78 in half! When Psalm 150 was reached we went back to the beginning, but with the rota reversed. So, for example, rota 1 would have been Pss 1 & 2 in the morning, and Pss 3 & 4 at Evensong, and rota 2 would be t'other way round. I think Windsor still follows a similar plan. I don't suppose that is of any interest whatsoever, but now y'know!
RJ

I went to St George's Windsor last year with a visiting choir, and was shocked looking at their music list at how scanty the psalmody was at Evensong - only a few verses. Liverpool also does only a tiny amount of it. I mentioned this on this forum and someone said they knew why there was so little at Windsor, but didn't go on and give the reason!

I always feel a bit patronised when it is suggested to me that I search for something on Google (not that that ever has happened to me here) - it's something of an insult to the intelligence. Rather like being referred to a dictionary to look up a word you don't know.

[choralpete]

http://bfy.tw/84Xi

I don't know how to operate a lectionary at the best of times but I can find no correlation between Table 4, Psalms in ordinary time (which I assume I am being referred to) and the St Paul's music list for the last few weeks. Not that I disbelieve what you are saying but I just don't know what you're pointing at. Which week are they doing now?

Also, you kind of missed my point - not "which psalms are they singing?" (I can see that quite clearly from the music list) but "why are they singing those psalms?"

If you've been to evensong at various London establishments, how can you have failed to notice that Westminster Abbey (to take but one example) doesn't follow the BCP psalm cycle either?

I must be very inattentive. Also, I just happened to notice at St Paul's because it was the "wrong" psalm for the day to my mind and I didn't think to check while at others. If W Abbey are the same it begs the same question - why. Perhaps I've been walking round with my eyes closed but I haven't come across this CW lectionary in cathedrals before.