CE Trinity Cathedral in the Danilov Monastery: Wed, 14th September 2016

**subcontrabass** · 10-09-16, 21:48

(1) I would have thought that having this recording in the archive for 11 years there might actually be a proper music list to go with it. I have emailed to request the publication of the music list, but so far I have only received the automated acknowledgement of the receipt of my email.

(2) It is on the wrong day. Vespers for the Exaltation of the Cross is sung on the evening of 13th September.

(3) My recollection from hearing this when it was first broadcast is that it has little resemblance to an actual service of Orthodox Vespers, being rather just a few extracts from Vespers (and other services). The Gospel reading, for example, is from Matins of the Feast. There is no role in Orthodox Vespers for a "Commentator".

**DracoM** · 10-09-16, 22:45

Your (3) was what puzzled me most, I have to agree.

If they are going to use archive material, why choose this one?

And I suspect he 'commentator' is to tell us what is going on?

IMO, this feels a bit bizarre all round.

**Pulcinella** · 11-09-16, 07:46

Perhaps it is too early in the new academic year (so there are new members in the choirs, and DoMs might prefer a settling-in period before they risk a live broadcast) for any of the regulars to have opted for this slot, assuming that it was offered, of course.

**DracoM** · 11-09-16, 10:27

Sure, of course, but I get the sense from subcontrabass's posting that as the archive is simply enormous, and as this seems to be not a service at all, why choose this instead of something notable from elsewhere that IS a service of some kind? It will be fine singing, but....?

**Nevilevelis** · 11-09-16, 14:05

Originally posted by DracoM View Post

Sure, of course, but I get the sense from subcontrabass's posting that as the archive is simply enormous, and as this seems to be not a service at all, why choose this instead of something notable from elsewhere that IS a service of some kind? It will be fine singing, but....?

Why do you think Orthodox Vespers 'seems not to be a service at all'?

**ardcarp** · 11-09-16, 14:56

I personally quite like a change from Anglican CE every so often. Hope there's lots of bottom B flats around. Can anyone explain the Feast of the Exaltation of the Precious and Life-giving Cross? Is it unique to the Russian Orthodox church?
[Naughtily, one cannot help recalling Eric Idle.]

**jean** · 11-09-16, 15:47

Originally posted by Nevilevelis View Post

Why do you think Orthodox Vespers 'seems not to be a service at all'?

Isn't the question, raised by subcontrabass earlier, whether this offering is Orthodox Vespers?

**subcontrabass** · 11-09-16, 15:50

Originally posted by ardcarp View Post

Can anyone explain the Feast of the Exaltation of the Precious and Life-giving Cross? Is it unique to the Russian Orthodox church?

Wikipedia ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feast_of_the_Cross ) gives the required information. The feast is celebrated by Roman Catholics and some Anglicans.

**Nevilevelis** · 11-09-16, 17:33

Originally posted by jean View Post

Isn't the question, raised by subcontrabass earlier, whether this offering is Orthodox Vespers?

I do find your tone quite patronizing. Is it intentional? People may ask WHATEVER QUESTIONS they wish, preferably without you jumping down their throats. I think I'd feel slightly more welcome here if you didn't.

**DracoM** · 11-09-16, 18:04

Originally posted by Nevilevelis View Post

Why do you think Orthodox Vespers 'seems not to be a service at all'?

I was following subcontrabass's suggestion, who seemed to think that this was not so much an integrated 'service' as a collection of pieces loosely based around a feast / theme, celebrated on Sept 13th? We have fairly regular CE's that are used to celebrate feast days that are around but not necessarily bang on the transmission date, so I'm not that concerned about date.

I am certainly looking forward to it. As I said, there will be some top singing [and bottom!!], and like ardcarp I welcome changes of diet.

**jean** · 11-09-16, 18:08

Originally posted by Nevilevelis View Post

I do find your tone quite patronizing. Is it intentional? People may ask WHATEVER QUESTIONS they wish, preferably without you jumping down their throats. I think I'd feel slightly more welcome here if you didn't.

Good grief! I was only pointing out - quite politely I thought - that DracoM hadn't said what you thought he'd said!

(As he has now explained.)

**Y Mab Afradlon** · 12-09-16, 15:58

Perhaps this might help http://lorenz.seboldt.net/choraleven...ox-vespers.htm

**DracoM** · 12-09-16, 16:17

Wow! Many thx,

**subcontrabass** · 12-09-16, 16:32

Originally posted by Y Mab Afradlon View Post

Perhaps this might help http://lorenz.seboldt.net/choraleven...ox-vespers.htm

Thanks for that. That indicates that the broadcast will include precisely ONE verse from Vespers.

The first three verses listed come from the end of Matins. Then we have the solitary verse from near the end of Vespers, which has no relation to the preceding narrative (which concerns something rather later in the service). Then we jump to the middle of Matins, in order but with significant omissions. This is up to the end of "Ode 9". Then we jump on to a bit of the raising of the Cross (which should precede the verses sung at the beginning of the broadcast). Then the Third Antiphon from the Divine Liturgy and a hymn which comes a little later. We end with a verse that follows Ode 9 at Matins.

So there is no way that this should be described as "Orthodox Vespers".