The Chapter House Choir, York

[jean]

There are the Clerkes of Oxenford, who broadcast a few R3 programmes in the early '70s.

At the time, nobody much was doing this repertoire, except for cathedral and college choirs. Their 'professional imitators' were not yet up and running but as soon as they were, they were preferred for broadcasts.

In the 1950s the Renaissance Singers under Michael Howard were also pioneering early choral music. I don't know if they ever broadcast, but they did make commercial recordings for Argo. I heard them live recently and they are much better now than they were then, but (like many other fine amateur chamber choirs in London and elsewhere) they don't get broadcast.

[light_calibre_baritone]

I wonder why broadcasting is held in such high esteem? Is it something to attain in amateur music-making (serious question)?

It's part and parcel of my life as a pro, and to be fair I don't give a hoot if a concert or service goes out on the radio, is streamed or transmitted into space. I'm bothered about the live performance!!

[jean]

Werll, it's quite helpful for potential audiences who don't live in London, where most of the concerts take place.

(Is that where we came in, or somewhere slightly different?)

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I wonder why broadcasting is held in such high esteem?!

Erm ... are you new to the Forum, l_c_b?

I don't think "esteem" is the point, though - it's the opportunity for wider audiences to hear the concerts; whether in London, York, St Ives, Kirkcudbright, Blackburn (either of 'em) or Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysilio gogogoch.

[light_calibre_baritone]

Erm ... are you new to the Forum, l_c_b?

I don't think "esteem" is the point, though - it's the opportunity for wider audiences to hear the concerts; whether in London, York, St Ives, Kirkcudbright, Blackburn (either of 'em) or Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysilio gogogoch.

Uh, well yeah I get the idea of a wider audience but surely just being able to get enough money together to put a concert or two on is hard enough? Whatevs.

[chorister49]

I wonder why broadcasting is held in such high esteem? Is it something to attain in amateur music-making (serious question)?

It's part and parcel of my life as a pro, and to be fair I don't give a hoot if a concert or service goes out on the radio, is streamed or transmitted into space. I'm bothered about the live performance!!

Perhaps if it wasn't part and parcel of your life then it would be more bothersome to you. As in all fields, recognition from your peers and the fact that people know what you're achieving is important to all musicians and ensembles.

Uh, well yeah I get the idea of a wider audience but surely just being able to get enough money together to put a concert or two on is hard enough? Whatevs.

With respect, it sounds as though you don't know much about the non-professional choral music scene. No, they're not just scratching around for money desperately trying to put on the next gig. Many are achieving very high standards, programming imaginative concerts, taking thorough rehearsal very seriously, paying attention to the detail in great depth, and not only that, are commissioning many new works from both established and emerging composers. There's a bewildering variety of music-making that takes place under the 'amateur' umbrella from joyous non-auditioned community choirs to top notch chamber choirs.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

There's a bewildering variety of music-making that takes place under the 'amateur' umbrella from joyous non-auditioned community choirs to top notch chamber choirs.

I have the impression that the BBC is much more interested in subjecting its audiences to the former, rather than the latter.

[jean]

The joyous non-auditioned community choirs, you mean?

This does seem to be a completely different issue from the one you started this thread with - but in any case, when did you last hear one of those on Radio 3? (Apart from Meet my Choir, of course.)

[Oldcrofter]

Well said, Chorister49 ! There is frequently an undercurrent of dismissive scorn for amateur choirs, both youth, community and adult , on this board. Similarly it is there for popular choral composers such as John Rutter, Karl Jenkins, Eric Whitacre et al. And enthusiasts such as Gareth Malone. Someone will doubtless write in that the "dismissive scorn" is well deserved.

The amateur groups, choirs and orchestras form the bedrock of music-making and of audiences for the professionals. They perform in and/or attend the whole variety of concerts that take place week in, week out all over this country. Amateurs support a host local music societies which invite both well-established and up-and-coming professionals, raising the money through ticket sales, subscriptions, donations and fund-raising to provide professional and semi-professional musicians and singers with a steady, basic income.

And this is "live" music, not provided by the BBC, CDs, CFM etc.

[Gabriel Jackson]

Well said, Chorister49 ! There is frequently an undercurrent of dismissive scorn for amateur choirs, both youth, community and adult , on this board. Similarly it is there for popular choral composers such as John Rutter, Karl Jenkins, Eric Whitacre et al. And enthusiasts such as Gareth Malone. Someone will doubtless write in that the "dismissive scorn" is well deserved.

The amateur groups, choirs and orchestras form the bedrock of music-making and of audiences for the professionals. They perform in and/or attend the whole variety of concerts that take place week in, week out all over this country. Amateurs support a host local music societies which invite both well-established and up-and-coming professionals, raising the money through ticket sales, subscriptions, donations and fund-raising to provide professional and semi-professional musicians and singers with a steady, basic income.

And this is "live" music, not provided by the BBC, CDs, CFM etc.

Nobody has disparaged amateur choirs in this thread. It is professionals that have been rubbished.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Nobody has disparaged amateur choirs in this thread. It is professionals that have been rubbished.

Indeed.

Though the BBC ignoring outstanding choirs (who happen not to be paid) is hardly a yes-vote.

[jean]

Indeed.

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that, on this thread, amateur choirs of a particular sort have been praised in contrast to one particular professional choir, and that amateur choirs of a different sort entirely have divided opinion?

[DracoM]

How often does the BBC transmit concerts by / including 'amateur' choirs?

[jean]

Almost never. This point was made earlier in the thread.

[DracoM]

I repeated it, jean, simply because I wondered if it had been forgotten.
Given the topic, it needs to be underlined.

I very much feel for the often excellent 'amateur' singing community who are the core of much community music-making in UK. It is a category which, despite its title, the BBC R3 programme 'The Choir' does not IMO cover with any expertise.