Choral Vespers - Chapel Royal of Hampton Court Palace Wed, 30th March 2016

[Miles Coverdale]

It's a nice phrase, certainly, but I can't say that it strikes me as exceptional. Browne's music is full of graceful, arch-shaped phrases. In his O Maria salvatoris mater, for example, he also shows great control of the texture, which is at least the equal of any composer of the period.

[jean]

...The Crucifige in Browne's Stabat mater is such a unique blip for its time that I wonder whether it was intentional...

I don't see how it can possibly not have been intentional - unless Browne didn't actually understand the Latin he was setting.

[jean]

A wonderful service, if somewhat overburdened with English in its spoken parts.

And what was the National Anthem doing there? Shouldn't it have been something like Domine, salvam fac reginam nostram... if it's properly there at all?

[Nevilevelis]

I thought this New Rite Vespers was pretty unremarkable apart form the Cornysh. I wasn't aware that one could sing an introit before the Deus in adjutorium meum, but there we are!

Plainsong too slow; most of it over-punctilious and lacking flow and forward motion. Too stunted for my taste. A couple of basses managed to egregiously leave the sound flapping on final notes. Really not convincing, despite the obviously high level of musicianship.

They sounded more at home in the polyphony, which is to be expected.

I wonder if the inclusion of the National Anthem is a nod to a tradition of the place. Wolsey?

NVV.

[DracoM]

Have to agree with a lot of the above.
The singers sounded just a bit uncomfortable until the Cornysh. Even the Tallis was a bit ordinary.
I mean - am I right? - as a group, they don't usually sing at services, do they?
And the very close acoustic didn't suit them all that well either. Yes, I know that that is where that kind of music / service would have been held, but.....

[Vox Humana]

I don't see how it can possibly not have been intentional - unless Browne didn't actually understand the Latin he was setting.

Or it simply didn't occur to him (or to any other English composer) that music might have some function in interpreting the text. :) I keep an open mind about it. Received opinion might well be right, but it's a strangely unique occurrence.

[Pulcinella]

Certainly John Browne's tunes are astonishingly...tuneful - especially in the Stabat Mater!

I suppose it could be argued that they don't particularly express the words they set.

Maybe that's what I should have said on another thread a while back, when I astounded (astonished?) you by saying that I found the piece too cheerful!

[Miles Coverdale]

Or it simply didn't occur to him (or to any other English composer) that music might have some function in interpreting the text.

I'm not sure that the function of liturgical music then was to interpret the text, at least not in the sense that we might use that word today. Rather, it was to draw the listener to the contemplation of higher things. How exactly would one interpret musically the text of one of the more laudatory Marian antiphons, for example?

[Miles Coverdale]

Maybe that's what I should have said on another thread a while back, when I astounded (astonished?) you by saying that I found the piece too cheerful!

It is true that there is sometimes an obvious mismatch, at least to our way of thinking, between the mood of the text and that of the music. Browne's Stabat virgo mater Christi, which sets one of the most excoriating texts in the Eton Choirbook, is in a disconcertingly major 'tonality'.

[Vox Humana]

I'm not sure that the function of liturgical music then was to interpret the text, at least not in the sense that we might use that word today. Rather, it was to draw the listener to the contemplation of higher things. How exactly would one interpret musically the text of one of the more laudatory Marian antiphons, for example?

Very much my point. I would rather suggest, though, that the primary purpose of British polyphony was to lend distinction to the liturgical ceremonial. Just as on double feasts you would bring out the incense, more candles, silk copes etc, so, too, you deployed polyphony. It was just another tool in the box. The aim of all this extra palaver was to impress, to inspire awe, to lend the day extra magnificence - perhaps, too, to inspire a more intense devotion. So a contemplation of higher things, yes, but definitely with an earthly impact. Daily votive antiphons were slightly different in that they were not festal, but the aim was much the same - to represent magnificence on behalf of the guild or person who had endowed the singing in memory of the soul(s) in question. For the singers, no doubt there was enjoyment too.

[Vox Humana]

It is true that there is sometimes an obvious mismatch, at least to our way of thinking, between the mood of the text and that of the music. Browne's Stabat virgo mater Christi, which sets one of the most excoriating texts in the Eton Choirbook, is in a disconcertingly major 'tonality'.

I think it was Hugh Benham who pointed out that most of the antiphons in the Eton Choirbook are in a major 'key'. (Of course major keys can express sadness and pathos in no less profound ways than minor keys, but that's a Romantic aesthetic and quite irrelevant to the 'Eton' pieces.)

[ardcarp]

Just to say I enjoyed the Sixteen at Hampton Court very much. Just picking up a few points from the threads above:

Plainsong: One needs to sing a whole lot of it regularly for it to become natural and not stilted.
The National Anthem: No complaints....but it did seem strangely out of place.
Cornysh: I agree very much with Vox. His lines seems to look forward to the assured style of the High Renaissance, whilst Fayrfax (an approx. contemporary) still has a whiff of the Medieval. That's a rather crude way of putting it. Anyway the Salve Regina, a substantial piece, was terrific.

[Magnificat]

A wonderful service, if somewhat overburdened with English in its spoken parts.

And what was the National Anthem doing there? Shouldn't it have been something like Domine, salvam fac reginam nostram... if it's properly there at all?

Jean

I don't know whether the National Anthem was properly there. As suggested in another post it may be a tradition of the Chapel Royal.

Perhaps, however, Byrd's 'Lord Make Thy Servant Elizabeth Our Queen To Rejoice In Thy Strength' would have been a more acceptable replacement in this service, Byrd having been a pupil of Tallis in The Chapel Royal. Not in Latin but a suitable prayer for our own Queen Elizabeth with which to end the service nevertheless.

VCC.

[Wolsey]

I wonder if the inclusion of the National Anthem is a nod to a tradition of the place. Wolsey?

Not sure what led to it being included on this occasion, I'm afraid.

[jean]

[Cornysh's] lines seems to look forward to the assured style of the High Renaissance, whilst Fayrfax (an approx. contemporary) still has a whiff of the Medieveal. That's a rather crude way of putting it...

Crude it certainly is - and based it seems on a view I thought we'd shed, of constant progress towards perfection, everything on the way falling short somehow.