Choir or Chorus?

[french frank]

but symphony orchestras are divided - the CBSO has a chorus, but the Hallé and the RLPO have choirs.

Yes, I was tentatively suggesting the opposite of what Pabs was saying, at least in terms of how the ensemble is described - that 'choir' is the more general term, since it is the term used for smaller ensembles, smaller works, a cappella, though it may also be used for bigger ensembles too - as in the examples you give, plus free-standing groups: City of Bristol Choir, Bristol Bach Choir - the latter at least tackling oratorios - both of which are pretty big.

Though even this is a doubtful assertion: I looked up "chamber chorus" in the confidence that it wouldn't exist!

[jean]

...I looked up "chamber chorus" in the confidence that it wouldn't exist!

That surprised me too - but mostly in America?

[french frank]

That surprised me too - but mostly in America?

At first look, yes.

[Serial_Apologist]

Another (probably unrelated) question: when did "choir" stop being "quire" - as in "Sweet singing in the quire" from "The Holly and the Ivy"?

[Gabriel Jackson]

Another (probably unrelated) question: when did "choir" stop being "quire" - as in "Sweet singing in the quire" from "The Holly and the Ivy"?

In the case of "The Holly and the Ivy", "choir" doesn't have to be, and often isn't, spelt "quire". It's a folk song. But, of course, the "quire" could be the place that sweet singing occurs in, rather than the people doing the singing.

[DracoM]

See edit reasons below

[Gabriel Jackson]

A number of postings on this thread are wilfully unpleasant.
Can we be more restrained in our interaction.

Chacun a son gout.

Wrong thread? I haven't seen anything unpleasant here.

[subcontrabass]

Sometimes "Chorus" is used to distinguish a body of singers that is only a part of a larger ensemble. Rossini, in both Stabat Mater and Petite Messe Solonelle, makes a distinction between "Chorus" and "Tutti" (often, in my experience, overlooked by conductors), where in the "Tutti" the soloists are expected to sing along with the chorus. This seems to imply that the chorus in these works should be small enough for that difference to matter (as, for example, in the first performance of Petite Messe Solonelle with a chorus of eight singers).

[jean]

Another (probably unrelated) question: when did "choir" stop being "quire"?

It looks as though it was a perfectly good ME word, but people felt it ought to look more like the Latin from which it wasn't directly derived at all. From the OED:

choir | quire, n.

Etymology: Middle English quer , quere , < Old French cuer choir of a church (modern French chœur ) < Latin chorus company of dancers, dance; company, band; (in medieval Latin) body of singers in church, place for singers in church; < Greek χορός dance, company of dancers or singers: compare chorus n. The change from Middle English quēre, to quyer, quire, goes exactly with that of brere and frere to brier, friar. The spoken word is still quire, though since the close of the 17th cent. this has been fictitiously spelt choir, apparently as a partial assimilation to Greek-Latin chorus, or French chœur.

The spelling quire has never been altered in the English Prayer-book. Some people affect to pronounce choir /kɔɪə(r)/ .

I love the idea of a fictitious spelling.

.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

It looks as though it was a perfectly good OE word, but people felt it ought to look more like the Latin from which it wasn't directly derived at all. From the OED:

choir | quire, n.

Etymology: Middle English quer , quere , < Old French cuer choir of a church (modern French chœur ) < Latin chorus company of dancers, dance; company, band; (in medieval Latin) body of singers in church, place for singers in church; < Greek χορός dance, company of dancers or singers: compare chorus n. The change from Middle English quēre, to quyer, quire, goes exactly with that of brere and frere to brier, friar. The spoken word is still quire, though since the close of the 17th cent. this has been fictitiously spelt choir, apparently as a partial assimilation to Greek-Latin chorus, or French chœur.

The spelling quire has never been altered in the English Prayer-book. Some people affect to pronounce choir /kɔɪə(r)/ .

I love the idea of a fictitious spelling.

I do wish you'd put that red pen away.

[jean]

Is that better?

[Magnificat]

[QUOTE=jean;550204]Don't know that one.[QUOTE]

Jean

You can negotiate with a terrorist!

VCC