Easter Music on TV this weekend

[Nevilevelis]

Um, can we have a little calm here, please? It takes an outsider a little time to figure out what's going on but let me make this point.

As a Radio 3-based forum, I took the decision to disallow personal attacks on Radio 3 staff. I really feel this should be extended to end general discussion about cathedral/choral personnel. The forum is for the discussion of the Radio 3 broadcasts of Choral Evensong. This will inevitably range wider into choral singing, compositions &c. I cannot see that it should extend to any individuals/groups, especially if the intention is to criticise people.

This is a public platform: it isn't provided for people, from their anonymity, to criticise professionals in the way they go about their jobs.

This may be ineptly expressed in a response to a request from a member to intervene, but in general those would be my views.

Thank you.

On the broadcast, which I enjoyed immensely after a very full day (nay, week) of rather different liturgy and repertoire, I really enjoyed their music-making, especially the plainsong Kyrie, beautifully shaped by all (Countertenors down the octave!) in the back row. Trebles, very fine too, as UTC has already mentioned.

I have a feeling the Dove Missa Brevis got an airing last Christmas from Bath Abbey too.

NVV

[Magnificat]

Um, can we have a little calm here, please? It takes an outsider a little time to figure out what's going on but let me make this point.

As a Radio 3-based forum, I took the decision to disallow personal attacks on Radio 3 staff. I really feel this should be extended to end general discussion about cathedral/choral personnel. The forum is for the discussion of the Radio 3 broadcasts of Choral Evensong. This will inevitably range wider into choral singing, compositions &c. I cannot see that it should extend to any individuals/groups, especially if the intention is to criticise people.

This is a public platform: it isn't provided for people, from their anonymity, to criticise professionals in the way they go about their jobs.

This may be ineptly expressed in a response to a request from a member to intervene, but in general those would be my views.

Ff

I would remind you that some time ago you disallowed comment about appointments of individuals but specifically stated that it was quite in order to criticise their choirs and the music they perform which must surely include the way they go about their jobs.

My criticism of the service from St Albans was more directed at the clergy in so much as they had available for Easter Sunday a regular service lasting no more than an hour that they could have offered to the BBC rather than cramming a service lasting usually at least an hour and twenty minutes into sixty minutes which does not make for a musically coherent service, doesn't show a superb cathedral choir in their best setting and certainly doesn't help the Master of The Music.

Choral Matins would have provided the watching public with Easter hymns and anthems, Easter readings and an Easter sermon which is exactly what was provided by the Parish Eucharist broadcast.

VCC

[Magnificat]

More commas needed here for me to judge whether your opinion of JD tallies with mine...

My point was that irrespective of whether I like the setting or not - I do actually - if the choir are going to sing a setting of the Mass then they should sing it in full not bits of it.

VCC

[french frank]

specifically stated that it was quite in order to criticise their choirs and the music they perform which must surely include the way they go about their jobs.

I don't think so. It would include what you hear and your thoughts on what might have been more satisfactory; but that need not entail mentioning any names, nor implying individuals. This may require some ingenuity on your part.

My criticism of the service from St Albans was more directed at the clergy in so much as they had available for Easter Sunday a regular service lasting no more than an hour that they could have offered to the BBC rather than cramming a service lasting usually at least an hour and twenty minutes into sixty minutes which does not make for a musically coherent service, doesn't show a superb cathedral choir in their best setting and certainly doesn't help the Master of The Music.

I may be quibbling, but it does seem to me that it is perfectly possible to comment on the fact that it was a pity the chosen service had to cram rather too much into the 60 minutes and what might have made a more satisfactory choice, without reflecting on who was to blame for this; and who and who is not 'musically blinkered'.

[Magnificat]

Your first para in no way supports your speculative conclusion. If that is how you go about concocting your anecdotes it is not surprising that they are not (as you blithely suggest and expect me to accept) 'always accurate and true'.Your second para is an incoherent rant from someone who appears to 'see sinister plots everywhere'.

That is certainly how they read to me. If the Dean and Chapter are going to publish extracts from Chapter meetings I presume they state exactly what was discussed.

As I have said before on the recent closed thread read the recently published Alban Notes you can then compare them with the things I have said on this thread and the BBC one before it over the years.

All I can say in conclusion is if you don't believe what I say and you are a member of the Abbey congregation go and talk to other members of the cathedral congregation as opposed to the parish congregation and ask them their views on what I have said regarding the preferential treatment accorded to the latter and to Choral Eucharist over Matins.

VCC

[Magnificat]

I don't think so. It would include what you hear and your thoughts on what might have been more satisfactory; but that need not entail mentioning any names, nor implying individuals. This may require some ingenuity on your part.

I may be quibbling, but it does seem to me that it is perfectly possible to comment on the fact that it was a pity the chosen service had to cram rather too much into the 60 minutes and what might have made a more satisfactory choice, without reflecting on who was to blame for this; and who and who is not 'musically blinkered'.

FF

1) Very difficult when everyone knows who you are talking about. I'll do my best.

2) As you say 'quibbling'

VCC

[jean]

Horrible Gloria.If I were a member of the congregation, I'd happily pass up the chance to sing that.

[underthecountertenor]

That is certainly how they read to me. If the Dean and Chapter are going to publish extracts from Chapter meetings I presume they state exactly what was discussed.

As I have said before on the recent closed thread read the recently published Alban Notes you can then compare them with the things I have said on this thread and the BBC one before it over the years.

All I can say in conclusion is if you don't believe what I say and you are a member of the Abbey congregation go and talk to other members of the cathedral congregation as opposed to the parish congregation and ask them their views on what I have said regarding the preferential treatment accorded to the latter and to Choral Eucharist over Matins.

VCC

There is plenty I could say in answer to this, but in line with FF's very sensible intervention, I will calm down and consider the matter closed. It would have been nice if we could have ended with Nevilevelis's complimentary words about the choir in the broadcast itself, but one occasionally just has to shrug.

[french frank]

FF ... 2) As you say 'quibbling'

VCC

It is my prerogative

[Philip]

Have watched the St Albans broadcast and thought it very well done. It is Easter Day, therefore a Eucharist is what should be broadcast IMO. I know it may have disrupted the routine at the Cathedral, but such is life unfortunately, and we should be grateful that we still get a live broadcast for Christmas, Easter and Pentecost on the telly. Its not always from a Cathedral, mind.

As highlighted above, the Dove was sung at Bath at Christmas (with Gloria on that occasion), but that service was a liturgical car crash, whereas this had the sort of dignity I would expect from Cathedral worship. And how wonderful to see that lengthy stream of parents and children arriving at the offertory, we should be glad that they are worshipping there.

Musically it was all very accomplished and I thought the organ came across very well with some great noises (although I think the D major P&F is rather naff if one can say that of JSB and not the sort of thing I'd choose for the end of an Easter Day service, but that's probably just me).

[Vox Humana]

I think the D major P&F is rather naff if one can say that of JSB and not the sort of thing I'd choose for the end of an Easter Day service, but that's probably just me.

I rather agree. I do think that the fugue has some thrilling, youthful panache, but the prelude... Oh dear. Once you get past the opening rhetoric it's just tedious, repetitive note spinning.

[Magnificat]

[QUOTE=Philip;550531 And how wonderful to see that lengthy stream of parents and children arriving at the offertory, we should be glad that they are worshipping there..[/QUOTE]

Philip,

Yes, the sight of all the children coming back from Sunday School was very uplifting and I'll give the clergy full credit for that. I know that the Archbishop of Canterbury was quite overwhelmed by the numbers of children involved at the Abbey when he visited last year. I hope many of them end up joining the choirs too.

VCC