Easter Music on TV this weekend

[underthecountertenor]

Well the choir of St Alban's had a big part to play in the televised Eucharist....including the motet as on the music list! I thought they sounded terrific. Hope you were either there or watching, VCC.

Pretty classy singing by the trebles in the motet, I thought.

[oddoneout]

Hmmm yes. Televised Mattins. BBC One are really going to go for that.

Well they might be interested if it was Matings - which was what it ended up being called in our family after typos in Parish notices had provided Snug Eucharist and Choral Evensnog....

[oddoneout]

Hmm. I wish I could agree. What I can say, with absolute respect, is that I don't think I've ever heard the choir sounding better under their current DoM. They were totally awesome. So well drilled. But the interpretations... Oh dear. As usual at King's, the DoM kept the tempi so taut that they completely strangled the music. But he's not alone: that's the modern way, isn't it? Why are all choirmasters today so scared of spaciousness? Why doesn't anyone allow the music time to blossom and meld with the acoustic any more? Why do we all have to be kept on the edge of our pews all the time? I'm afraid I drew very little musical edification from this programme. I was never allowed the time. With the honourable exception of the hugely enjoyable Elgar, it all left me completely cold. I accept that this is purely my problem (and anyone else's who cares to share it), but where are the great Romantic gestures of yesteryear? What, actually, is wrong with sheer, glorious expansiveness - and, if you will, religious sentiment? As for the hymn "My song is love unknown" we had two different speeds in the playover and then the DoM set yet a third speed for the singing. That was just plain sloppy. A wise DoM lets the organist control the hymns (having previously made it clear what he wants). Fortunately that was just a blip - the other hymns were fine. I'm quite sad about this. I really wanted to enjoy this service and felt that I could have done, but I just wasn't allowed. Is depth of interpretation too much to ask for?

No need to agree surely, that's the thing about music - what is agreeable to one isn't to another. As I mentioned earlier I prefer the brisk to the expansive, but also on this occasion the music brought with it a considerable weight of memories, experiences, emotions which I provided a filter effect( doubled where I was singing along!) which meant that I could ignore what, in an absolute sense, was not necessarily the most satisfactory performance of the music.
Mind you, having to get in the mood for an Easter service when you may not have even bought, let alone opened, the christmas presents yet is quite an ask....

[Magnificat]

Hmmm yes. Televised Mattins. BBC One are really going to go for that.

As I understand it the BBC ask the cathedral if they can broadcast their services. It's up to the Dean and Chapter to say which ones.

The trouble is that church and cathedral morning services are so grimly uniform these days. Everywhere it is the Eucharist that dominates. I accept that it is the most important service but as Jean said above it would be good to hear choral Matins broadcast from cathedrals occasionally.

When Barry Rose left St Albans he said ( another anecdote for you!! ) that after he had gone they would get rid of most of the best stuff and as far as Matins is concerned he was right. We hardly ever hear the best Te Deums now because Matins is sung so rarely and take the Lamentation by Bairstow as sung by King's and mentioned above - wonderful piece especially the way BR did it - never done by Andrew Lucas. It is the same with the Benedicite - hardly ever hear it. The choir's repertoire is greatly diminished as a result in my opinion. Unfortunately the clergy couldn't care less.

VCC

[Mr Stoat]

This is a combined Parish and Cathedral Eucharist crammed into one hour containing elements of both services e.g. the modern language liturgy of the parish communion rather than the traditional language of the cathedral service.

It would appear that the Gloria is the usual Thorne setting used at the parish service and sung by all rather than Jonathan Dove's setting for his Missa Brevis sung by the choir alone which is a shame ( no doubt to save time ). Actually I have no idea who Thorne is/was.

The choir is also singing the motet Surgens Jesus by Philips.

Jeffrey John's sermon will be worth a listen.

VCC.

Thorne is... http://www.davidthornemusic.com/

[underthecountertenor]

As I understand it the BBC ask the cathedral if they can broadcast their services. It's up to the Dean and Chapter to say which ones.

The trouble is that church and cathedral morning services are so grimly uniform these days. Everywhere it is the Eucharist that dominates. I accept that it is the most important service but as Jean said above it would be good to hear choral Matins broadcast from cathedrals occasionally.

When Barry Rose left St Albans he said ( another anecdote for you!! ) that after he had gone they would get rid of most of the best stuff and as far as Matins is concerned he was right. We hardly ever hear the best Te Deums now because Matins is sung so rarely and take the Lamentation by Bairstow as sung by King's and mentioned above - wonderful piece especially the way BR did it - never done by Andrew Lucas. It is the same with the Benedicite - hardly ever hear it. The choir's repertoire is greatly diminished as a result in my opinion. Unfortunately the clergy couldn't care less.

VCC

On what is your 'understanding' based? Apart from 'specials' (almost invariably from St Paul's or Westminster Abbey), the only televised services these days are at Christmas (midnight mass) and Easter Day. The suggestion that the BBC would give the cathedral carte blanche to choose (for example) to give them a matins on Easter Day when, on that occasion in particular, the Eucharist is clearly the more significant service, flies in the face of the inherent probabilities and sounds like more speculation in the absence of evidence.
As for your last paragraph, your veneration of St Barry is well-known and is a matter for you, but (assuming that your anecdote is accurate) his word as to what is the 'best stuff' is not holy writ. Beyond that, you appear (on more than one occasion now) to be using this forum to vent your personal criticism of a particular music director and a particular set of clergy. I cannot for the life of me see why this should be considered acceptable.

[EnemyoftheStoat]

Jonathan Dove's setting for his Missa Brevis sung by the choir alone which is a shame

More commas needed here for me to judge whether your opinion of JD tallies with mine...

[Nevilevelis]

On what is your 'understanding' based? Apart from 'specials' (almost invariably from St Paul's or Westminster Abbey), the only televised services these days are at Christmas (midnight mass) and Easter Day. The suggestion that the BBC would give the cathedral carte blanche to choose (for example) to give them a matins on Easter Day when, on that occasion in particular, the Eucharist is clearly the more significant service, flies in the face of the inherent probabilities and sounds like more speculation in the absence of evidence.
As for your last paragraph, your veneration of St Barry is well-known and is a matter for you, but (assuming that your anecdote is accurate) his word as to what is the 'best stuff' is not holy writ. Beyond that, you appear (on more than one occasion now) to be using this forum to vent your personal criticism of a particular music director and a particular set of clergy. I cannot for the life of me see why this should be considered acceptable.

It is unacceptable, cowardly sedition. Another ASBO for VCC (which he will wear with pride, no doubt) and a closed down thread. Meanwhile, a fine DoM's reputation is unjustly sullied et nemo considerat.

Ardcarp, DracoM, French Frank, will you do something about it, please?

[Magnificat]

On what is your 'understanding' based?

As for your last paragraph, your veneration of St Barry is well-known and is a matter for you, but (assuming that your anecdote is accurate) his word as to what is the 'best stuff' is not holy writ. Beyond that, you appear (on more than one occasion now) to be using this forum to vent your personal criticism of a particular music director and a particular set of clergy. I cannot for the life of me see why this should be considered acceptable.

underthecountertenor

The cathedral pewsheets announcing the transmission and Cathedral Chapter Notes in The Abbey News said only that the BBC had asked to broadcast they did not specify the services.

Unfortunately the cathedral congregation had to kow - tow to the Parish yet again.

As you know from a recent thread my anecdotes are always accurate and true.

My admiration of Andrew Lucas as a choir trainer is unbounded as I have made clear on this board on many occasions even this thread. I don't always agree with his choice of repertoire as I am sure is the case in most cathedral music circles as far as the DoM is concerned.

Unfgortunately utc you tend to see sinister plots everywhere.

The clergy at St Albans are generally very good but musically blinkered.

VCC

[Magnificat]

It is unacceptable, cowardly sedition. Another ASBO for VCC (which he will wear with pride, no doubt) and a closed down thread. Meanwhile, a fine DoM's reputation is unjustly sullied

Absolute rubbish.

Andrew is a fine choir trainer but not above criticism.

VCC

[underthecountertenor]

There is no reasoning with you.
'You...tend to see sinister plots everywhere.'
'Musically blinkered.'
Matthew 7:3 springs to mind.

[underthecountertenor]

The cathedral pewsheets announcing the transmission and Cathedral Chapter Notes in The Abbey News said only that the BBC had asked to broadcast they did not specify the services.

Unfortunately the cathedral congregation had to kow - tow to the Parish yet again.

As you know from a recent thread my anecdotes are always accurate and true.

VCC

Your first para in no way supports your speculative conclusion. If that is how you go about concocting your anecdotes it is not surprising that they are not (as you blithely suggest and expect me to accept) 'always accurate and true'.

Your second para is an incoherent rant from someone who appears to 'see sinister plots everywhere'.

[Nevilevelis]

Absolute rubbish.

Andrew is a fine choir trainer but not above criticism.

VCC

Typical bravura.

[french frank]

Um, can we have a little calm here, please? It takes an outsider a little time to figure out what's going on but let me make this point.

As a Radio 3-based forum, I took the decision to disallow personal attacks on Radio 3 staff. I really feel this should be extended to end general discussion about cathedral/choral personnel. The forum is for the discussion of the Radio 3 broadcasts of Choral Evensong. This will inevitably range wider into choral singing, compositions &c. I cannot see that it should extend to any individuals/groups, especially if the intention is to criticise people.

This is a public platform: it isn't provided for people, from their anonymity, to criticise professionals in the way they go about their jobs.

This may be ineptly expressed in a response to a request from a member to intervene, but in general those would be my views.

[DracoM]

Completely endorsed.