CE Westminster Abbey 9th March 2016

[jean]

We do Italian pronunciation, ardcarp. 'A' as in 'all' would be wrong.

(Problem is that the words exultavit and exaltavit both occur in the Magnificat, and people often think they're the same word - but not people with J O'D's the experience of singing in Latin!)

[Finzi4ever]

We do Italian pronunciation, ardcarp. 'A' as in 'all' would be wrong.

(Problem is that the words exultavit and exaltavit both occur in the Magnificat, and people often think they're the same word - but not people with J O'D's the experience of singing in Latin!)

Well said, j. I'd tentatively suggest exsultavit should be as the u in bull, while exaltavit as u in hull, unless of course you come from 'ull, in which case there's no difference!

As you can imagine I was in Heaven with this performance of LTFFS - what impressed me above all was the pace and space it was allowed. The balance between top & bottom, ch & org were fine. I think the (mild) criticism of the boys' sound up-thread was unfair - how else could you possibly want that final Amen to sound?

[Nevilevelis]

But did I really hear et exultavit humiles?

No, and certainly not in the subsequent Altus and Tenor entries. Ideally, the trebles' 'a' could've been more Italianate i.e. brighter, higher placed.

[Nick Armstrong]

As you can imagine I was in Heaven with this performance of LTFFS - what impressed me above all was the pace and space it was allowed. The balance between top & bottom, ch & org were fine. I think the (mild) criticism of the boys' sound up-thread was unfair - how else could you possibly want that final Amen to sound?

I caught the latter part of this service and I couldn't agree more - what a wonderful performance of the piece that was. One of my most cherished pieces of church music, and I can't imagine it better done. (I'm looking over to the small bronze bust of Finzi which sits by the lamp next to my CD collection as I write )

[chitreb]

I like the dash of vinegar in the trebles' sound too - just my sort of thing.

I recall the late John Birch mildly rebuking one of the choristers of my vintage for "too much vinegar and broken glass". Chacun ...

[Nevilevelis]

I recall the late John Birch mildly rebuking one of the choristers of my vintage for "too much vinegar and broken glass". Chacun ...

Others above have taken issue with your criticism of the Abbey trebles, but until now, not me. Since you bring it up, if the Temple Church chorister in question was singing in head voice (I assume that to be the style in Birch's day... ?) and pushing, then I would probably agree with him. I assume everyone here is able to hear the difference between supported and unsupported singing. The Abbey trebles don't pipe the high notes, but it is a reasonably well mannered 'English' sound.

I share your dismay at Katie Derham's continued efforts to mangle certain words, though. I particularly enjoy her attempts at authentic pronunciation of composers' names and musical titles. I say 'enjoy'...

[jean]

No, and certainly not in the subsequent Altus and Tenor entries. Ideally, the trebles' 'a' could've been more Italianate i.e. brighter, higher placed.

I heard exactly the same vowel from the trebles in exaltavit as in exultavit.

The Altus and Tenor come in at the same time rather than subsequently, so I couldn't distinguish their vowel sound at all.

(Well, if KD deserves such opprobrium for mispronouncing things...)

[Magnificat]

This is no surprise to them that know him, as he is (IMHO) undoubtedly one of the best in the business, and he is likely to be there for the long haul. (And why would anyone ever wish to move out of those splendid lodgings in Minster Yard?!)

K

A long haul might not be the best thing as it is so easy for any talented DoM to become stale. Sometimes a move ( promotion or otherwise can be the best thing for both the DoM and the cathedral ). I hope the days of a cathedral/college DoM carrying on for 40 years or more are over. I should think 20 years in one place is more than enough probably even less than that.

VCC

[Nevilevelis]

I heard exactly the same vowel from the trebles in exaltavit as in exultavit.

The Altus and Tenor come in at the same time rather than subsequently, so I couldn't distinguish their vowel sound at all.

If you say so. I didn't, and partly for the reasons I have explained.

Here's the score http://www.cpdl.org/wiki/images/c/c0...primi_toni.pdf

(bars 68 & 69) Altus and Tenor sing the third syllable of exaltavit a little later. The Bassus is a little covered as you would expect on a C (they are down a tone) so it clouds the focus a little.

Well, if KD deserves such opprobrium for mispronouncing things...)

Cheeky!

NVV

[Keraulophone]

K

A long haul might not be the best thing as it is so easy for any talented DoM to become stale. Sometimes a move ( promotion or otherwise can be the best thing for both the DoM and the cathedral ). I hope the days of a cathedral/college DoM carrying on for 40 years or more are over. I should think 20 years in one place is more than enough probably even less than that.

VCC

I agree with you, Mag, but he's only just got going - lots of wondrous things still to come, I'm sure. There's long and there's loooooong (i.e. a permanent fixture until retirement, as was his predecessor).

Stephen Cleobury was short-listed for York following Dr Moore's retirement, though in the end, the D&C prefered a younger candidate (no reflection on Dr C's widely admired abilities). I know what you mean by 'stale': the late John Winter was at Truro Cathedral for 40 years, a fine organist and improviser, who was appointed as assistant to the legendary Guillaume Ormond, and, on GO's retirement, then remained as Organist and Master of the Choristers for another 20 years. Towards the end of his directorship, he retreated back into the organ loft, having rehearsed the choir but leaving his assistant organist to conduct, from where he would drown the hapless singers with an enthusiastic right foot on the swell pedal of that formidable Father Willis division. One of the reasons for the flowering of Truro's cathedral choir (since Oct. 2015 with a separate girls' choir) has been its succession of talented young DoMs, beginning in 1989 with Winter's successor David Briggs, who have left their mark and then respectably swiftly moved onward and upward, to Gloucester, St John's Cambridge, and York.

[ardcarp]

He had published a very tuneful setting of the Mag and Nunc, Winter in D. Being very short and quire easy for kids to learn, it is a useful piece to have on the back-burner if CE is to include anything long, such as a weight anthem or sermon.

[underthecountertenor]

What an appalling way to speak to people.... if true!

And therein lies the problem with the gossip and the boasting of supposed inside knowledge so prevalent on this board.

[ardcarp]

Hang on a minute! Speaking one's mind to members of a choir, especially a paid choir, is sometimes necessary. It also depends how things are said. It can be done lightly or with humour but nonetheless with intent! This is not gossip or hearsay because in both the following cases, I was there. Roy Massey to altos.."If you don't stop that hooting, I'll bring some birdseed next time" (slightly illogical I agree). Barry Rose to me (sight-reading a short solo in one of his pieces) "OK that was superb Serbo Croat...now can we have it in English?" Both RM and BR were renowned choirtrainers and neither minced their words. It was all taken in good part. Personally, if I'm singing like a drain (increasingly likely with advancing age) I would like to be told.

[Keraulophone]

Yes, apart from being a fine organist, John Winter was a good musical craftsman, capable of writing suitably simple and directly communicative, melodious music for his choirboys, when, back in those days when the Cathedral School existed (it closed in 1981) they sang all but one of the four weekday Evensongs on their own (the gentlemen joining them on Wednesdays). One of those short anthems (though this one is SATB), with words by the then Dean of Truro the Very Revd David Shearlock, was televised in 1985 by TV South West (ITV), with the composer in the organ loft, as was his wont, and his assistant for 19 years (and DoM of Truro School, a Methodist foundation from 1880), the late Henry Doughty (whose father-in-law was the conductor and producer Lawrance Collingwood, with The Gramophone Co/EMI 1926-72), waving: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbWYDsx7PHc

[Keraulophone]

a useful piece to have on the back-burner if CE is to include anything long, such as a weighty anthem

Watson in E is a classic of that type, with a simple but deftly written organ part, apparently written with the abilities of the then organ scholar in mind. And Dyson in F, even lovelier.