CE Church of St Bartholomew the Great, London Wed, 17th Feb 2016

[DracoM]

CE Church of St Bartholomew the Great, London
Choir of Royal Holloway, University of London, with Fretwork



Order of Service:



Introit: Lord, grant grace (Gibbons)
Responses: Tomkins
Psalm 89 (Boyce, Marsh, Morley)
First Lesson: Jeremiah 5: 20-31
Canticles: First Service (Morley)
Second Lesson: John 5: 30-47
Anthem: How long wilt thou forget me? (Ward)
Hymn: Love of the Father (Song 22)


Voluntary: In nomine (Byrd)



James Kealey (Senior Organ Scholar)
Rupert Gough (Director of Choral Music)

[light_calibre_baritone]

Shame this isn't the choir of St. Bart's... Though since Nigel Short left there has been a mass exodus of singers.

[cloughie]

Shame this isn't the choir of St. Bart's... Though since Nigel Short left there has been a mass exodus of singers.

Where have they all gone? This is not a flippant question - as a chorister the waxing and waning of choirs is bothe vexing and interesting.

[light_calibre_baritone]

Where have they all gone? This is not a flippant question - as a chorister the waxing and waning of choirs is bothe vexing and interesting.

My second-hand knowledge is that the choir Short left didn't like the change of Director.

This isn't too uncommon though; when David Trendell left Bart's for Bourne Street some choir members tagged along... Or a purge of personnel by the new incumbent is also standard practise.

[cloughie]

My second-hand knowledge is that the choir Short left didn't like the change of Director.

This isn't too uncommon though; when David Trendell left Bart's for Bourne Street some choir members tagged along... Or a purge of personnel by the new incumbent is also standard practise.

I can see the tagging along option but there must be a riches of available replacements for a purge!
Your pseudonym suggests a voice similar in range to mine - could flirt with being a tenor but not available for providing power at the bottom of the bass range!

[light_calibre_baritone]

I can see the tagging along option but there must be a riches of available replacements for a purge!
Your pseudonym suggests a voice similar in range to mine - could flirt with being a tenor but not available for providing power at the bottom of the bass range!

Tenor I can't do... I'm a lazy baritone really; I hang out in the bass-baritone category at the moment.

I love Howells' idea of a 'light calibre baritone' - sounds like a type of gun!

[Rupert Gough]

"My second-hand knowledge is that the choir Short left didn't like the change of Director"

It is a pity that people post without being in possession of proper facts. This broadcast is from the Priory Church of St. Bartholomew the Great because there is an open day at Royal Holloway which would cause too much disruption to the broadcast. Now that I am also director at St. Bart's it made sense to use the church.

When any director leaves a post many singers take the opportunity to move position for a variety of reasons. None of this was over unhappiness at the change of direction and we now have a healthy, happy professional octet at the church.

I hope you all enjoy the broadcast.

[ardcarp]

Thanks for setting us straight! We look forward to the broadcast. (Morley's First Service is one of my faves.)

[light_calibre_baritone]

Thanks for setting us straight! We look forward to the broadcast. (Morley's First Service is one of my faves.)

Yes agreed! Please don't shoot the messenger.. Glad things are starting out well for you at St Bart's.

[DracoM]

Reminder: today @ 3.30 p.m.

[ardcarp]

Lovely tight and disciplined consort singing, very musically directed. The fact that it sounded quite close-miked and yet showed no lack of balance among the voices was very creditable. It was a treat to hear the Morley canticles and the Ward anthem with viols. The latter ends rather abruptly...one almost feels the need to shove an 'Amen' on the end! For a CE with a small mixed voice group, this is, IMO, about as good as it gets. I guess some would have hoped for the psalms to have been accompanied, word-painting style, by a large instrument; but personally I found the uncluttered delivery very appealing.

[DracoM]

What evidence is there that Tudor services were indeed conducted with viol consorts as accompanists? Genuinely interested.

[Miles Coverdale]

What evidence is there that Tudor services were indeed conducted with viol consorts as accompanists? Genuinely interested.

The two references cited by Peter le Huray are both frustratingly vague. One Lieutenant Hammond visited Exeter in the 1630s and noted that 'At Exter there is a delicate, rich and lofty organ … which, with their viols and other sweet instruments and tunable voices … together make a melodious and heavenly harmony, able to ravish the hearer's ears.' At Christ Church, Dublin, services were 'attended and celebrated with all manner of instrumental music, as organ, sackbutts, cornetts, viols etc., as if it had been at the dedication of Nebuchadnezzar's golden image in the plain of Dura'. Neither specifically mentions the viols accompanying the choir.

I think the principal objection to the idea that their use was widespread is a practical one: namely, they're not really loud enough to accompany a large choir. While they are very effective in accompanying one or more solo singers, they can't really compete with a choir of 30 or so voices. On recordings, of course, the balance can be fixed quite easily.

No instrumental parts survive from 'liturgical' sources. Rather, the sources which do contain parts for instruments are secular in nature (for example Ch. Ch. 21, one of the main sources for Gibbons' verse anthems).

Some time ago David Skinner appeared on an episode of the Early Music Show talking about this very subject. If I remember right, his view was along the lines of 'absence of evidence is not evidence of absence'. In other words, just because it's not clear that they were used doesn't mean they weren't.

At best, the jury's out. But it sounds nice, so what's not to like, as they say?

[ardcarp]

On a practical level, and probably stating the obvious, the nature of the part writing of such pieces suits viols, voices or keyboard equally well. I agree entirely about 'what's not to like' ! I am not wholly sure I agree about the balance thing though. It is lovely singing with viols precisely because they do not predominate, and as the part-writing in the tutti sections generally doubles the voices, they do not need to. (I have been similarly delighted when singing with sackbutts, which blend absolutely naturally with the human voice.) There is also the question of the size of 17th century choirs. It would not have been unusual to have, say, 12 singing boys and 6 men. In the 1970s, Salisbury's choir (similar size) did a Byrd/Gibbons/Tomkins CE as part of the Southern Cathedrals Festival with the viol consort sitting between the choir- stalls. The balance was perfect.

[Miles Coverdale]

On a practical level, and probably stating the obvious, the nature of the part writing of such pieces suits viols, voices or keyboard equally well.

Are you sure? I'm no organist, but I'm told by those who are that reductions of viol parts don't always 'lie under the hands' particularly well.

I think that if this practice occurred with any regularity, there'd be more evidence of it in the surviving records, not least in the form of payments to those playing the viols.