German Baroque Epiphany: BBC Singers 12 January

[Triforium]

I agree with you about the Tallis, but 'this kind of Baroque repertoire' seems to me to be well within their range.

I have just listened to this concert and found it rather more than 'acceptable' or 'good in parts'.

I hope no-one was put off listening by this thread.

Jean, I appreciate that you commented on the actual performance, as opposed to simply commenting on other's comments without committing to a personal assessment.

[mercia]

I thought we already had a thread dedicated to slagging off the BBCS - or was that the Christmas Oratorio thread ?

[Pulcinella]

I thought we already had a thread dedicated to slagging off the BBCS - or was that the Christmas Oratorio thread ?

Surely any performance in which they are involved which does not meet with forumites' approval deverses to be slagged off, as you so politely term it?
They often produce a dreadful unblended shrill vibrato-laden sound which many (yes Gabriel, this is only the tip of the iceberg you are seeing here) find they cannot bear to listen to.
Being told simply to switch off, go elsewhere, etc, is not a helpful response.
We expect better from such a professional group (though from my one experience in singing in a choir next to a BBCS bass I would question their professionalism, or at least this one chap's ability to be pleasant company: he boasted about being a BBCS member and sneered at my first sight-reading attempts at medieval French without offering any advice or help; I was the one given the solo in the concert though!) and do not deserve to be vilified by those who think that our criticisms are unwarranted.

[aeolium]

Like jean, I find the constant vilification of the BBCS tiresome, particularly when it precedes an event in which they are performing - most of the comments attacking them are not based on actual experience of the concert this thread is supposed to be about. For all the attacks on them on this board, they do have their admirers (as a glance at reviews of recordings will indicate, as well as Gabriel Jackson's comments upthread). They also tackle a very diverse range of repertoire from early music to contemporary - they have recorded works by Boulez, Birtwhistle and Ferneyhough, for instance.

Unlike perhaps many of those here attacking the BBCS, I did listen to the concert and enjoyed it. I love the music of Michael Praetorius in particular, and wish there was a concert (or a CotW) dedicated to music by this wonderful composer. I have no problem with people specifically criticising a performance which they have heard, but criticism without hearing it simply on the basis of their dislike of a performer or group seems wrong to me and I wish there were less of it.

[light_calibre_baritone]

Surely any performance in which they are involved which does not meet with forumites' approval deverses to be slagged off, as you so politely term it?
They often produce a dreadful unblended shrill vibrato-laden sound which many (yes Gabriel, this is only the tip of the iceberg you are seeing here) find they cannot bear to listen to.
Being told simply to switch off, go elsewhere, etc, is not a helpful response.
We expect better from such a professional group (though from my one experience in singing in a choir next to a BBCS bass I would question their professionalism, or at least this one chap's ability to be pleasant company: he boasted about being a BBCS member and sneered at my first sight-reading attempts at medieval French without offering any advice or help; I was the one given the solo in the concert though!) and do not deserve to be vilified by those who think that our criticisms are unwarranted.

That has nothing to do with the German Baroque concert; we now know you just hold a personal grudge towards them based on an off-hand comment... Did you listen to the gig?

[ardcarp]

They also tackle a very diverse range of repertoire from early music to contemporary - they have recorded works by Boulez, Birtwhistle and Ferneyhough, for instance.

Indeed they do, and I don't think anyone is questioning their musicianship. There are not many specialist 'contemporary vocal' groups around, Exaudi being a notable exception.

[Pulcinella]

That has nothing to do with the German Baroque concert; we now know you just hold a personal grudge towards them based on an off-hand comment... Did you listen to the gig?

There is no just about it at all.
I do not hold a grudge, as you choose to call it, against the guy, but am happy not to have had any further association with him.
I had formed my opinion of the BBCS long before this encounter.
It certainly confirmed my suspicion that they thought of themselves (or at least he did: I should not generalise) as a cut above the rest of us, which was unnecessary and unpleasant in the context of the chamber choir we were singing in together.
No, I did not listen, as I had indeed made up my mind beforehand that I would not enjoy it.
I happen not to like liver and onions either, so why would I order a meal consisting of it merely to reinforce my dislike?
If the sound they make is acceptable to you then that is perhaps your good fortune.
I just wish that they kept away from repertoire that seems to bring out what many people find unacceptable about them. Surely one can say that in a thread devoted to such works?

[Nevilevelis]

I like a fuller sound (with deep support) in early rep. along with a modicum of vibrato and James O'D's work at Westminster Cathedral and Westminster Abbey is testament to his expertise in this area, so I was very interested to hear this concert.

I could hear his influence clearly in the shaping of phrases and delivery of the text - the singers were making a real effort here, and I liked it in general. However, the full choral sound clotted a little for my taste with, it seemed, one or two voices driving the sound somewhat. Likewise the solos, some of which were very stylish, whilst others seemed a little under pressure to control their instruments. So perhaps not all were horses for this course (for my taste) and a more fashionable result could be achieved with a smaller, hand-picked ensemble. Tricky, I guess, but they are all salaried, so...

Perhaps it's time for THE ETERNAL BBCS DEBATE forum topic where people can grapple with one another's views.

Finally, I see support above for their work in contemporary rep. Please could someone direct me to threads that praise them in this rep.? I can't find them.

Also, here's a link to Australia's only professional choral ensemble, THE SONG COMPANY. http://www.songcompany.com.au/audio/ They have full government subsidy (last time I checked) to perform at least 80% contemporary rep. but they also achieve sterling results in other rep. They sound ideal, to me. I see Antony Pitts is about to take over helm too! I am not suggesting this is the way the BBCS should go, but it is a comparable group. They augment to larger forces when required, too, and do one newly commissioned opera/music-theatre work per year.

[Gabriel Jackson]

Indeed they do, and I don't think anyone is questioning their musicianship.

Of course they are! Re-read some of the comments on this thread...

[aeolium]

Finally, I see support above for their work in contemporary rep. Please could someone direct me to threads that praise them in this rep.? I can't find them.

I think you may struggle to find threads with any comments about the BBCS in contemporary choral repertoire as there are simply few such threads.
Still, it's not difficult to find reviews online about their recordings of such music, e.g. this one. And this article in tribute to the BBCS' 90th birthday contains links to performances of C20 and C21 music, so you don't have to bother with the opinions of others but can just listen and make up your own mind:

http://www.theguardian.com/music/tomserviceblog/2014/sep/24/the-bbc-singers-90th-birthday

[Nevilevelis]

I think you may struggle to find threads with any comments about the BBCS in contemporary choral repertoire as there are simply few such threads.[/URL]

Yes, I rather suspected as much. I shall have to start some of my own and see how many fish bite!

I have heard them many times is contemporary rep. and they are, of course, splendid.

Many thanks!

NVV

[DracoM]

I do not think ANYONE is challenging their achievements and ambition in such repertoire, Nevelevilis

[Nevilevelis]

I do not think ANYONE is challenging their achievements and ambition in such repertoire, Nevelevilis

No, did I suggest that? I didn't mean to. But in the interests of balance, it would be nice to see some actual threads devoted to their best work, wouldn't it!

[Gabriel Jackson]

I have no problem with people specifically criticising a performance which they have heard, but criticism without hearing it simply on the basis of their dislike of a performer or group seems wrong to me and I wish there were less of it.

Indeed, and most of those who did listen to it (myself included) appear to have enjoyed it, for all that they may have had reservations about this, or that. As far as I can make out, apart from the person that thinks the BBC Singers have never heard any early music, and that the soloists were excrutiating, they only people who thought this concert was awful were people who didn't hear it.