Tallis Scholars

[Nick Armstrong]

Listening to the Tallis Scholars singing the Gloria from Tallis's Puer Natus est Nobis Mass just now, something dawned on me.

Over the years - indeed, decades - I've acquired various TS recordings, usually driven by curiosity about specific repertoire or composers. Their energy and professionalism in bringing to light neglected works are unquestionable and praiseworthy.

However, I've always found myself rather unmoved by - uninvolved in - their performances. I rarely go back to recordings I own by them.

I'd never heard their Puer Natus est Nobis Mass, as I have 2 or 3 other recordings. And hearing it, I think I know why I don't warm to TS performances; and why nowadays I avoid acquiring their recordings.

It seemed so unyielding, both rhythmically and tonally - pressed forward metronomically, relentlessly somehow, and with an unvarying 'edge' to the choral sound (especially up top).

Hearing it, I had difficulty recognising one of my very favourite pieces of choral music, which in the hands of King's or Stile Antico (to cite two of the others I own) is a candidate for the Desert Island for me.

I wondered what some of the specialists on the Choir board would have to say about this.

.

[rauschwerk]

However, I've always found myself rather unmoved by - uninvolved in - their performances. I rarely go back to recordings I own by them.

...so unyielding, both rhythmically and tonally - pressed forward metronomically, relentlessly somehow, and with an unvarying 'edge' to the choral sound (especially up top).

I wondered what some of the specialists on the Choir board would have to say about this.

Not sure if I qualify as a specialist (though I have been singing Renaissance polyphony for many years) but I couldn't agree more with your view. The TS's bleached perfectionism doesn't really move me at all.

[light_calibre_baritone]

Welcome to my Renaissance choral music pet-hate number 1: Singing that sounds like limp, dull WALLPAPER - Everything one colour and one volume.

[Chris Watson]

I wonder if you'd think the same if you had come to one of our 13 live performances of the Tallis Mass this month (sadly only one in the UK). I'm in no way criticising your perfectly valid personal viewpoint but have always wondered how many people base their views of an ensemble on that group's recordings rather than their live performances (for TTS that's one highly edited CD recording made up of very many takes of each page versus around 80 live gigs a year). Just wondering!

[Chris Watson]

I don't think we make any claim to be authentic! On the off-chance that you might want to compare that old recording of the Tallis with the group as it is at the moment live, our concert last Saturday in Boston will be available here from Monday morning. http://www.wgbh.org/995/

[rauschwerk]

I wonder if you'd think the same if you had come to one of our 13 live performances of the Tallis Mass this month (sadly only one in the UK). I'm in no way criticising your perfectly valid personal viewpoint but have always wondered how many people base their views of an ensemble on that group's recordings rather than their live performances (for TTS that's one highly edited CD recording made up of very many takes of each page versus around 80 live gigs a year). Just wondering!

A fair comment! I haven't heard the TSs live for a good many years, I admit.

[Black Swan]

I also agree. I hear them regularly as I attend the York Early Music Festival every year. I am always a bit underwhelmed and like others have purchased and still regularly purchase their CD's when they are released. There is always mixed opinions on Early Music Groups. I am a big fan of Andrew Carwood and the Cardinall's Musick but others are not fans of them either. I am currently listening to their recoding of the Missa Puer natus est nobis.

[Nick Armstrong]

I wonder if you'd think the same if you had come to one of our 13 live performances of the Tallis Mass this month (sadly only one in the UK). I'm in no way criticising your perfectly valid personal viewpoint but have always wondered how many people base their views of an ensemble on that group's recordings rather than their live performances (for TTS that's one highly edited CD recording made up of very many takes of each page versus around 80 live gigs a year). Just wondering!

I wonder, too. I confess I've never heard them (sorry: ...you! ) live.

[BBMmk2]

This seems to be quite perplexing, Cali. I find their recordings a bit of a mixed bag?

[Chris Watson]

I wonder, too. I confess I've never heard them (sorry: ...you! ) live.

No need to apologise! I also judge groups by their recordings and have to keep reminding myself that they are not really (or at least necessarily) a true representation of what they do. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the difference between the Boston concert (if you get a chance to listen to it) and the CD of the Tallis.

[light_calibre_baritone]

I also agree. I hear them regularly as I attend the York Early Music Festival every year. I am always a bit underwhelmed and like others have purchased and still regularly purchase their CD's when they are released. There is always mixed opinions on Early Music Groups. I am a big fan of Andrew Carwood and the Cardinall's Musick but others are not fans of them either. I am currently listening to their recoding of the Missa Puer natus est nobis.

Did you catch any of the York Early Music Christmas Festival this month? No Tallis Scholars but lots of other similar groups...

[Nick Armstrong]

No need to apologise! I also judge groups by their recordings and have to keep reminding myself that they are not really (or at least necessarily) a true representation of what they do. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the difference between the Boston concert (if you get a chance to listen to it) and the CD of the Tallis.

The apology was for failing to include you in the personal pronoun

Thanks for your tolerance of my intolerance!

I have forwarded the WGBH link to where I'll be next week and shall indeed listen with interest. Will it be via the 'Concerts on demand' link on the page?

[Richard Tarleton]

No need to apologise! I also judge groups by their recordings and have to keep reminding myself that they are not really (or at least necessarily) a true representation of what they do. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the difference between the Boston concert (if you get a chance to listen to it) and the CD of the Tallis.

Making a nervous debut on the Choir board... I went to a terrific Tallis Scholars concert in St David's Cathedral a few years ago inc. a performance of Allegri Miserere in which they (you!) dispersed around the cathedral for added effect. Marvellous. Nothing quite like hearing this sort of group in such an acoustic - in recent years we've also enjoyed the Cardinall's Musick, the Hilliards, all making good use of the space. My one Sixteen concert was in King's Place, excellent but not quite the same.

I believe there is some crossover of personnel between (e.g.) Tallis Scholars and The Sixteen? As a complete ignoramus in this field I'm interested to know how differently you sing in different ensembles.

[jean]

...I'm interested to know how differently you sing in different ensembles.

I was wondering exactly that.

[Chris Watson]

I was wondering exactly that.

It's an interesting question, and gets asked quite often. Directors generally have a pretty clear idea of the sound they want, some will ask for it and others will only say anything if they hear something they don't like. And of course if you come into a well-established group it's pretty likely that you will already have heard them and therefore have an idea of what's expected. There are more and more good groups out there, offering several different approaches to the music that's sung, and thankfully the audiences also seem to have increased, so I don't find Caliban's opinion 'intolerant' but simply an expression of what he likes. TTS are lucky that we still attract audiences all over the world (7 of our 8 North American concerts this month were sold out, in large buildings, and our latest CD was our third release in a row to go straight to the top of the UK chart) but I think that the audience for this music in general is also lucky because if you don't like one group's approach to a piece of Tallis or Palestrina there are plenty of other excellent groups for you to choose. My Dad was a founder member of the Clerkes of Oxenford and one of my early memories is hearing them record in Oxford in 1973, the year TTS gave its first concert. I don't think anyone then imagined that a small group of singers performing a 16th century Mass setting would sell out a concert hall in Japan or America (for instance) and appear in concert series alongside symphony orchestras and string quartets, but nowadays it's quite common and the more groups doing it the merrier. I still prefer live music making to CDs, and greatly prefer some recordings to others (the choral CDs I listen to most often are Westminster Cathedral and Tenebrae) but I'd better stop there!