CE Chester Cathedral Wed, 16th Dec 2015

[terratogen]

They didn't get to wear surplices. Why might that be, I wonder?

I find this a fascinating question, actually.

It often seems that the case for visually 'giving the girls their own identity within the choir'—which, admittedly, leaves me a bit skeptical anyway—may be less about the girls than it is about the boys and that this is especially true in places where, rather than have wholly different vestments (e.g. Salisbury, Lincoln, Exeter), the girls are visually othered from the boys and men through the absence of the very thing—the surplice—that symbolically conveys full membership in the choir.

Several foundations have in the past two or three years have made the decision to vest all of the trebles the same. I'm thinking of Ripon, Ely, Blackburn(?), Peterborough (which, in addition, recently reconfigured the age range of the girls). There may be others. The right symbolic choice, I think, and hopefully reflected in further practice!

[Magnificat]

I had just been writing the following when I was beat to it:

So those who wouldn't extend choristerships to seven- to thirteen-year-old girls anyway can simultaneously dismiss the accomplishments of Chester's girls by obliquely implying that it's only by virtue of their age that they've done so splendidly here. :

terratogen

I have heard some really impressive singing from 10 to 14 year old girls at St Albans under Simon Johnson whose choir could sing some really difficult stuff and fill the large spaces of the cathedral as well as the boys;but most similarly constituted girls' choirs I have heard struggle to do so.

Generally speaking older teenage girls will be much more experienced and technically accomplished and today's repertoire was demanding to say the least. I'm not surprised that Jean has confirmed that there were no really young girls singing today.

VCC

[light_calibre_baritone]

terratogen

I have heard some really impressive singing from 10 to 14 year old girls at St Albans under Simon Johnson whose choir could sing some really difficult stuff and fill the large spaces of the cathedral as well as the boys;but most similarly constituted girls' choirs I have heard struggle to do so.

Generally speaking older teenage girls will be much more experienced and technically accomplished and today's repertoire was demanding to say the least. I'm not surprised that Jean has confirmed that there were no really young girls singing today.

VCC

Here we go again...........

[jean]

I'm not surprised that Jean has confirmed that there were no really young girls singing today.

I didn't ask them how old they were, but by very young I meant about 8.

I don't think they were older than 14.

But (as others have said) it is hard to see what point you are trying to make.

[ardcarp]

I think VCC is one of the grand institutions of this Forum! We all know his view...i.e. untiring support of the trad all-male choir...and he is unafraid to express it. How dull it would be if we all agreed about everything.

Some hope

[mw963]

.

But (as others have said) it is hard to see what point you are trying to make.

Sadly in your case Jean it is ALWAYS blindingly obvious what point you are trying to make, and you have been boring us all with your drum-banging ever since I joined this forum about three years ago, and then left (in despair) again a year ago.

Honestly, of all the forums I've ever joined I think this one has the biggest number of plonkers and plonkettes I've ever come across....

Please feel free to ban me, it would be a badge of honour to be honest, and would make no difference as I haven't posted for a year and have no intention of doing so in the future, other than to point out what a waste of time many of you are (with a few honourable exceptions such as Roger Judd and Matthew Martin).

With folk as represented here the Choral Tradition has no need of enemies....

[Don Basilio]

That is the rudest post I can remember seeing for a long time.

[DracoM]

Have re-listened.

I was quietly impressed by Chester - big psalm sing, with little flagging, plenty of discipline and decent tempi. Byrd's Great was a very brave choice given jean's info on numbers, BUT they delivered, and at a very busy time of year for schools, choirs, cathedrals too. Not a full-throated sound, but big enough.

My guess is that the back rows knew what an ask the Byrd was and maybe, but only maybe, very slightly over compensated so as to be heard to support the trebs.

Totally endorse ardcarp's view that this was indisputably an ADVENT SERVICE, and not a sort of Christmas try-out. More power to them.

[quiretenor]

That is the rudest post I can remember seeing for a long time.

I would just ignore it if I were you. Jean has my support and that of others too, I hope. All views and opinions are welcome here but abuse is surely intolerable.
I am up to my eyeballs in carols, but I hope to catch up with the present one soon. It's certainly garnering high praise from the stalwarts, so I am very much looking forward to it amidst the Dec. madness.

[Vox Humana]

I was quietly impressed by Chester

Me too. I enjoyed it all very much indeed.

[light_calibre_baritone]

Sadly in your case Jean it is ALWAYS blindingly obvious what point you are trying to make, and you have been boring us all with your drum-banging ever since I joined this forum about three years ago, and then left (in despair) again a year ago.

Honestly, of all the forums I've ever joined I think this one has the biggest number of plonkers and plonkettes I've ever come across....

Please feel free to ban me, it would be a badge of honour to be honest, and would make no difference as I haven't posted for a year and have no intention of doing so in the future, other than to point out what a waste of time many of you are (with a few honourable exceptions such as Roger Judd and Matthew Martin).

With folk as represented here the Choral Tradition has no need of enemies....

Do you side with VCC then, re. top line?

[Magnificat]

I didn't ask them how old they were, but by very young I meant about 8.

I don't think they were older than 14.

But (as others have said) it is hard to see what point you are trying to make.

Jean,

You said originally that in case anyone was wondering the service was sung by girls.

The point is that the word 'girls' can cover a gamut of ages unlike the word 'boys' which is generally regarded in the cathedral choir world as referring to boys aged 10 ( when they start to get a useful voice ) to13/14 ( when the boy's voice, unlike a girl's, usually breaks )

I don't know the age range of the Chester girls because the cathedral site doesn't say but in my opinion and my experience of listening to cathedral choirs of girls and men and the repertoire in this service I would be very surprised if the Chester top line was comprised of girls aged 10 to 13/14. I would say that they were older than that.

As I said originally if the girls singing this service were 10 to 13/14 year olds then they were outstanding.

Perhaps someone who knows the set up at Chester can clear this up once and for all. It is a a shame their site gives so little information in this regard.

VCC

[DracoM]

Well, VCC, maybe Chester thinks that what the choir sing and the services they sing in are more important than detailed biogs of the participants?
Just a thought.

I fully accept that such sites are an advertisement for what can be / is done, and an encouragement to parents to think of allowing their children to sing.

[quiretenor]

Well, VCC, maybe Chester thinks that what the choir sing and the services they sing in are more important than detailed biogs of the participants?

Absolutely.

[oddoneout]

And if you can't get the boys and don't think girls are a suitable alternative then you end up with no music - which doesn't seem to me to be a particularly clever situation.
Well perhaps not no music but not the same choice.