Radio 3 Carol Competition

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Do we have a winner? My money's on the Burgess setting.

I agree.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I felt as though I were joining Big Brother, Strictly Come Dancing and any of these other public voting competitions. but I did sign up and vote on this occasion.

I just feel slightly unclean.

[Awkwardlistener]

I don't agree. Terrific musician but no real understanding of singing and generally has little to say about the musical interpretation apart from the obvious. However, he does like singers and appreciates a full-throated sound, so my assertion remains. This is from extensive personal experience under his direction in a professional capacity. Example - He conducted the Bach Choir in a performance of Palestrina's Stabat Mater and after the reh. commented to a professional colleague that the tenors were finding it very difficult (at original pitch). My colleague suggested it may be easier and more effective transposed down which apparently came as a surprise. I really can't believe someone of this calibre wouldn't have considered this on that basis alone, not to mention the clear theoretical evidence for downwards transposition of 'high clef' combinations.

Cleobury, likewise - very dull!

Thought I would interject here. The Burgess carol is by some distance the best, and the competition probably needs it to win, to have any kind of credibility.

The comments re David Hill and Stephen Cleobury are interesting. I was a chorister under the former, and sang numerous times under the latter at university, and occasionally at King's where I depped (I was a choral scholar at another place.)

I have to say that the causal dismissal of both is a bit wide of the mark. To take David, he didn't really have "one sound". The Winchester sound was robust, straight in tone and wonderfully atmospheric, but the work he did later on with SJCC sounded quite different. He was actually quite technical in regards to singing, and was fully aware of fundamentals of technique. The sound he aimed for was "bel canto" but within a choral context. This could produce very occasionally unblended and erratic performances, but for the most part was pure magic. Stephen Cleobury too was acutely aware of what constituted "good" singing. Singing Bach with him was a cerebral pursuit, with brilliant emphasis put on well pronounced German and intelligent interpretation of counterpoint and harmony. Singing Kodaly and Verdi under him was too hear and sing in a choir that sounded like the four horseman and the Apocalypse.

Both brilliant and very different. We would do well not to dismiss men (and women) of such calibre on this board. The UK is lucky to have so many of them in abundance. Merry Christmas.

[DracoM]

Burgess for me - even more than before. Only one with any real individuality. Less is more. Can see that featuring in many. many choirs repertoires. Love to hear it sung by a top quality cathedral choir, too.

[Ian]

You might also be interested in the winning carols of the ‘Carol for Christmas’ competition:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUDeQNfP0-K7G5LkstvyCbCzNdSzShlFp

Stephen Cleobury was conducting and Classic FM and Edition Peters were among the organizing partners. There were 4 categories - in which anyone could enter (apart from the under 18 category). Classic FM are broadcasting all of them them on Christmas Day.

Ben Heneghan who some might remember used to contribute to the old R3 forum won the over 18 SATB category.

Regarding the Radio 3 competition I do wonder what purpose is served by restricting entries to a very narrow definition of ‘amateur’ composers?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I have to say that the causal dismissal of both is a bit wide of the mark.

I don't suppose too many people took the "virtual torpedo" in question very seriously. Both conductors have a record of top-drawer excellence, but no-one will please all of the people for all of the time.

[quiretenor]

Thought I would interject here. The Burgess carol is by some distance the best, and the competition probably needs it to win, to have any kind of credibility.

Good, pleased to agree on that!

Both brilliant and very different. We would do well not to dismiss men (and women) of such calibre on this board. The UK is lucky to have so many of them in abundance. Merry Christmas.

I don't feel beholden to tow your party line, nor do I find your pompous exhortation do so, coupled with a passive aggressive seasonal greeting at all welcome, but THERE WE ARE!

Since you seem to be in some doubt, it was not a 'casual dismissal', needless to say, both gents have much to recommend them, superlative musicianship and organizational skills. Sadly, I hear a dullness in most of the musical results, but as Alpie says, you can't please all of the people all of the time! For what it's worth, several colleagues agree with me.

Moving on, it will interesting to see if the Burgess wins. I strongly suspect the views on this forum will not be reflected in the public's choice.

[CallMePaul]

By "one" do you mean number 1?

Yes, I voted for Ann Burgess yesterday afternoon! Her setting is far and away the best and I am pleased to see that most people with formal musical training agree with me. I fear, though, that Alec McGregor's ultra-conservative setting may win the audience vote.

[teamsaint]

Yes, I voted for Ann Burgess yesterday afternoon! Her setting is far and away the best and I am pleased to see that most people with formal musical training agree with me. I fear, though, that Alec McGregor's ultra-conservative setting may win the audience vote.

Perhaps there should be two votes, one for the public, and one for people who know what they are talking about.

[Historian]

Perhaps there should be two votes, one for the public, and one for people who know what they are talking about.

That would surely be setting a dangerous precedent. Where would it end?

[jean]

If people who now come over all democratic really did privilege popular opinion over knowing something about it, they wouldn't be posting here

[Historian]

If people who now come over all democratic really did privilege popular opinion over knowing something about it, they wouldn't be posting here

I still haven't learnt that posting something does not reveal the 'tone of voice' which it was meant to convey.

[aeolium]

Surely "knowing something about it" is neither here nor there in a competition where people are supposedly voting for their favourite carol. It's just a matter of personal taste, isn't it?

[teamsaint]

Surely "knowing something about it" is neither here nor there in a competition where people are supposedly voting for their favourite carol. It's just a matter of personal taste, isn't it?

That's what I thought.

some opinions may be more equal than others though.
apparently.

[vinteuil]

some opinions may be more equal than others though.
.

I certainly hope so : I think expertise is to be valued.