Radio 3 Carol Competition

[quiretenor]

Nooooooo!. Don't blame David Hill. He's one of the best. The BBC Singers have sounded like this under most, if not all, of their conductors.

I don't agree. Terrific musician but no real understanding of singing and generally has little to say about the musical interpretation apart from the obvious. However, he does like singers and appreciates a full-throated sound, so my assertion remains. This is from extensive personal experience under his direction in a professional capacity. Example - He conducted the Bach Choir in a performance of Palestrina's Stabat Mater and after the reh. commented to a professional colleague that the tenors were finding it very difficult (at original pitch). My colleague suggested it may be easier and more effective transposed down which apparently came as a surprise. I really can't believe someone of this calibre wouldn't have considered this on that basis alone, not to mention the clear theoretical evidence for downwards transposition of 'high clef' combinations.

Cleobury, likewise - very dull!

[jean]

Only one managed to improve that dreadful poetry...

It isn't wonderful, I agree. And I usually like Roger McGough. But not much opportunity here for the sly irony he does best.

Did he compose it specially?

[subcontrabass]

Did he compose it specially?

That is what we are told: 'We asked amateur composers to set "Comes the Light", a specially-written poem by Roger McGough, ... '

[quiretenor]

It isn't wonderful, I agree. And I usually like Roger McGough. But not much opportunity here for the sly irony he does best.

Did he compose it specially?

Thanks Jean. I shall look up his writing - always inerested to explore. This just felt glib and dutiful to me. I do like the Burgess setting though, so there must be something in it.

[ardcarp]

Terrific musician but no real understanding of singing and generally has little to say about the musical interpretation apart from the obvious.

Apart from the 'terrific musician' bit, I couldn't disagree more. His tenure at Winchester produced some fantastic singing. I do know that he wanted to stride a wider musical stage than just church music. I am afraid any conductor just has to accept the BBCS as they are. Occasionally they are conducted by someone who would like a straighter sound...and it just makes the sopranos sound like a strangulated hernia.

[quiretenor]

Apart from the 'terrific musician' bit, I couldn't disagree more. His tenure at Winchester produced some fantastic singing. I do know that he wanted to stride a wider musical stage than just church music. I am afraid any conductor just has to accept the BBCS as they are. Occasionally they are conducted by someone who would like a straighter sound...and it just makes the sopranos sound like a strangulated hernia.

Utter nonsense re. the Beeb Singers and the professional working atmosphere. You haven't worked with them or him, I assume... ? I can give you the facts and personal accounts, but if you wish continue to believe what you believe and make up the rest to support your argument, then so be it.

Personally I found the Winchester sound very fine sonically, but interpretatively often bland and dull, especially in rep. that doesn't just sing itself i.e. polyphony.

[ardcarp]

OK then. What about Westminster Cathedral? David Hill's recording of Britten's Ceremony of Carols cannot be bettered. Brilliant singing, brilliant direction, brio and pathos in turns where needed. To say he has "no real understanding of singing and generally has little to say about the musical interpretation" is utter nonsense too!!!!

Of course the BBCS are professional. Being a member means a secure livelihood.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Of course the BBCS are professional. Being a member means a secure livelihood.

"Professional" merely means that the singers are paid. The singers Chapter House Choir, York do not get paid, but sound better in every way than the BBCS.

[DracoM]

Pretty upset by quiretenor's dismissal of David Hill. And endorse ardcarp
Whether that is a purely personal issue - and it does feel just a little like that from postings abovethread - or what, needs reflection.
Many of DH's recordings bear scrutiny, one would suggest, whatever may be the truths or otherwise of his recent retentions at BBCS, who as many know are laws unto themselves into terms of sound / attitudes.

[doversoul1]

Utter nonsense re. the Beeb Singers and the professional working atmosphere. You haven't worked with them or him, I assume... ? I can give you the facts and personal accounts, but if you wish continue to believe what you believe and make up the rest to support your argument, then so be it

The facts and personal accounts are indeed very interesting to hear but in what way do they explain or relate to how the performance sounds to the audience?

[quiretenor]

OK then. What about Westminster Cathedral? David Hill's recording of Britten's Ceremony of Carols cannot be bettered. Brilliant singing, brilliant direction, brio and pathos in turns where needed. To say he has "no real understanding of singing and generally has little to say about the musical interpretation" is utter nonsense too!!!!

Of course the BBCS are professional. Being a member means a secure livelihood.

I like the Drome Britten CD very much - a high watermark in his tenure. I was going to mention it actually, but I knew you would and I was proved correct!

The objective style suits Britten - just do what's on the page - especially when it has the effect of tempering the 'Maserati' sound of the Drome. O'Donnell had a similar effect on them but with much better results. A real understanding of singing comes with the ability to change the sound and offer sound and perceptive technical advice on how to do so particularly when there are problems, as there always will be. There are only three conductors I know who can really do this and only one of them is a choral specialist.

[quiretenor]

The facts and personal accounts are indeed very interesting to hear but in what way do they explain how the performance sounds to the audience?

We have now begun a discussion as to how the results are achieved and in the face of wild speculation, I am putting forward some facts about the reh. process.

[quiretenor]

Pretty upset by quiretenor's dismissal of David Hill. And endorse ardcarp
Whether that is a purely personal issue - and it does feel just a little like that from postings abovethread - or what, needs reflection.
Many of DH's recordings bear scrutiny, one would suggest, whatever may be the truths or otherwise of his recent retentions at BBCS, who as many know are laws unto themselves into terms of sound / attitudes.

Diddums!

It's not a personal issue, so don't try to devalue it by suggesting that, please. As you are quick to point out, it's an opinion, with which you may or may not agree.

Who told you the Beeb Singers "are laws unto themselves"? You, well not you, perhaps, will never work with a more committed and flexible group of musicians.

[ardcarp]

Maybe this thread should now focus on the carols submitted for the competition?

[quiretenor]

Good idea. Do we have a winner? My money's on the Burgess setting.