CE Norwich Cathedral 7th October 2015

[DracoM]

CE Norwich Cathedral
The centenary of the death of Nurse Edith Cavell, who was executed on 12th October 1915, and is buried at the cathedral




Order of Service:



Introit: Justorum animae (Stanford)
Responses: Ashley Grote
Office Hymn: Lord, thy word abideth (Ravenshaw)
Psalm 37 (Goss, Ouseley)
First Lesson: Hosea 14
Canticles: Great Service in D (Parry)
Second Lesson: 1 Timothy 1: 12-17
Anthem: Greater love (Ireland)
Final Hymn: Abide with me (Eventide)



Organ Voluntary: Sonata in E flat - first movement (Bairstow)



Organist: David Dunnett
Master of Music: Ashley Grote

[DracoM]

Looks like a fine service in the offing in Norwich this p.m. @ 3.30

[ardcarp]

We seem to be on a good run of CEs right now, and all I can say about today's is WOW.

[DracoM]

Cracking pace, right on the end of the baton, neat articulation. Yes, big sing for all and very finely done. Top line in great form.

[Op. XXXIX]

...and all I can say about today's is WOW.

Yes.

Was not familiar with the descant in the final verse to Eventide. I loved it. And of course always a pleasure to hear the Ireland and Bairstow.

Thank-you Norwich!

[LTFC1990]

Enjoyable service. It really felt like eavesdropping on a normal evensong, which I think is nice on occasion! Well done.

[Finzi4ever]

'larvely jarb, Naaarwich!' Well done. Great to hear the Bairstow too.

[alycidon]

I certainly would not take Ravenshaw at that pace. Far too fast.

[mopsus]

I certainly would not take Ravenshaw at that pace. Far too fast.

Hymns on broadcasts are usually taken faster than they normally would be, otherwise they are thought to sound draggy and dull to the listeners. It has caught me out every time I've sung on a broadcast!

[ardcarp]

Speed of hymns is a matter of personal taste, of course. Another reason they may get a scoot on during a live broadcast is that the Beeb are usually paranoid about timings. If anything has to be speeded up to fit in, it's the hymn. Not much chance of goading the clergy into faster praying......

[alycidon]

I'm not surprised at what you say, but I do wish the Beeb would use the same guiding principle for sports broadcasts which always over-run. Anyhow, if what you say is the case, why not shorten the organ postlude rather than gee-up the hymns.

I can never be accused of dragging hymns, but I do reserve the right to play contemplative words, and tunes like Ravenshaw, at a respectable speed. It is strange, isn't it, that clergy who would never dream of gabbling the verbal parts of the service, seem to be quite happy to gabble the sung parts?

But, as you correctly say, it is a matter of personal preference, and I am in the north of Scotland where church singing tends to be slower, rather than quicker.

[DracoM]

Missing five minutes of Mr Rafferty would be time well spent IMO.

[alycidon]

Gosh, you are being reasonable. I would quite happily miss ALL of Mr Rafferty, all of the time!

[Vox Humana]

Hymns on broadcasts are usually taken faster than they normally would be, otherwise they are thought to sound draggy and dull to the listeners.

Speed of hymns is a matter of personal taste, of course. Another reason they may get a scoot on during a live broadcast is that the Beeb are usually paranoid about timings. If anything has to be speeded up to fit in, it's the hymn. Not much chance of goading the clergy into faster praying......

[HOBBY HORSE MODE] I'm sure that happens. An organist friend of mine once told me of an occasion many decades ago when he was passed a note during a broadcast: "We're running late. Please speed up the hymn". Personally I deplore the fast speeds at which hymns are so often taken today. I believe the thinking usually goes broadly along the lines of, "Oh, we need to keep the singing lively and cheerful otherwise the impression will be dismal and lethargic". All that this ever achieves for me is to make the verses sound perfunctory and trite. I'm afraid Norwich's singing of "Ravenshaw" had this effect on me - although only just (I found the gabbled psalms more distasteful). Preventing congregations from dragging is often cited too, but dragging shouldn't be an issue if the organist is leading with solid rhythm and authority. In fact I believe that fast speeds are actually more likely to encourage dragging. Earlier this summer I found myself sitting near the back of one of our small, parish-church cathedrals, listening to a visiting choir. The hymns were quite fast and I listened carefully to how the decently sized congregation coped. They didn't. No one was very far from the choir or the organ, so co-ordination should not have been a problem, yet, not having the ability or, probably, even realising the need to take quick lungfuls, they lost time at every line end and were forever playing catch-up. It's unrealistic to expect congregations to do what a well-drilled choir can. Some tunes, particularly some old west-gallery ones, are designed to be sung robustly, but most traditional Anglican hymnody is not of that ilk. I'm far from advocating RVW's English Hymnal speeds (although I have had occasion to try these and in a large, packed church they can be wonderfully effective), but when such hymns are allowed sufficient space to sound majestic or noble they simply sound more musical to my ears. I fancy congregations find them more satisfying too when their singing is given a chance to blossom. [/HOBBY HORSE MODE]

[alycidon]

It's comforting to know that there are those who think the same way as I do. I've been leading congregations, on and off, for close on sixty years, so this is a subject in which I am well versed.