Choral Vespers for the Feast of the Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary Wed, Sept 9t

[mopsus]

BTW, there's another Magnificat by Fayrfax, O Bone Jesu, edited by Paul Doe.

I have sung a faux-bourdon Magnificat (published by Novello) which claimed to be by Fayrfax. As it's in English I can't imagine it is by Fayrfax as it stands. Perhaps the music is adapted from another work by him? (The Mag is paired with a faux bourdon Nunc by an unknown, later composer, and there are some charming but completely inauthentic little solo descants added to the Amens by the editor.)

[Simon Biazeck]

Thanks for the speedy response - I agree (& am with you on NCO too). Now I'm ready to be shot down in flames when I say that unless the full choir were singing in early form of meantone or whatever would be more appropriate for the period, the intonation of the Hacomplaynt, and to a lesser degree the Fayrfax, was 'interesting' to put it mildly, or am I revealing some serious Philistinism...

The ideal tuning system for this period is just intonation. 1/4 comma mean tone (and the later 1/6 comma) are keyboard compromises, but because singers always sang a capella, choirs were not expected to emulate the keyboard temperaments. I don't believe we were hearing an attempt at authentic tuning here (if it was, it was unconvincing!), nor did we when CCC sang similar repertoire, albeit with greater fluency. Here and there thirds and fifths were pretty much equal temperament to my ears and the KKC trebles were riding sharp over the men's voices.

Very few professional ensembles apart for the now disbanded Hilliards attempt just intonation with any real success, and it certainly has never caught on in Ox/Cam choirs. I look forward to hearing to the contrary! Ironically, with all the virtuosic marketing hype around what an authentic sound ought to be, it's one of the only elements of historical performance of which we can be absolutely sure!

[Miles Coverdale]

I have sung a faux-bourdon Magnificat (published by Novello) which claimed to be by Fayrfax. As it's in English I can't imagine it is by Fayrfax as it stands. Perhaps the music is adapted from another work by him? (The Mag is paired with a faux bourdon Nunc by an unknown, later composer, and there are some charming but completely inauthentic little solo descants added to the Amens by the editor.)

I don't think any of those fauxbourdon settings published by Novello around the turn of the 20th century are authentic; they're all adaptations from other works.

[ardcarp]

Historic temperaments are really for keyboard instruments that have fixed notes. Occasionally however (and I think Rogers Covey Crump...or was it Nigel Rogers?) showed how choirs could tune final cadences with perfect major thirds...which are narrower than tempered thirds and are sometimes described as 'restful'. Some viol consorts do it too, but don't ask me how. Most singers have 'equal temperament' lurking subconsciously in the background, and indeed during the course of a tonal piece it is necessary minutely to sharpen leading notes...otherwise the overall pitch will sag.

Having now had another listen to KCC, their tuning was not up to the usual standard and I doubt it was any sort of attempt at 'historic' tuning!

[Miles Coverdale]

Historic temperaments are really for keyboard instruments that have fixed notes. Occasionally however (and I think Rogers Covey Crump...or was it Nigel Rogers?) showed how choirs could tune final cadences with perfect major thirds...which are narrower than tempered thirds and are sometimes described as 'restful'. Some viol consorts do it too, but don't ask me how. Most singers have 'equal temperament' lurking subconsciously in the background, and indeed during the course of a tonal piece it is necessary minutely to sharpen leading notes...otherwise the overall pitch will sag.

I have heard it said that in the early days of Gothic Voices (which included Rogers Covey-Crump), they would in seminars sing the same piece more than once, each time in a different temperament. In the recording by the Taverner Choir of Tavener's Quemadmodum, the final chord of the first section is so in tune the third essentially disappears.

In the case of viol music, this generally has a fairly restricted range of key signatures (no signature, one flat or two flats), and the frets are unevenly spaced on the fingerboard so that the third of the chord is usually in the sweet spot, so to speak.