Originally posted by DoctorT
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I'll reserve judgement on that! -
Today's contributions:
Hymn to survival
Sir, Cecil Frances Alexander wrote nearly 400 hymns and poems; most have fallen into disuse. Of the 14 hymns that she wrote addressing each of the articles of the Apostles’ Creed, included in her book Hymns for Little Children, only three have survived the test of time: Once in Royal David’s City, There is a Green Hill Far Away and All Things Bright and Beautiful. It is probably true to say that they have appeared in almost every UK denominational hymn book published in the 21st century and many other books besides. In an age in which it is increasingly difficult for the church to bridge the disconnect with an increasingly secular world, we should give thanks that, after 175 years, All Things Bright and Beautifulstill speaks to people today.
The Rev Robert A Canham
Secretary, Hymn Society of Great Britain and Ireland
Sir, As parents we occasionally attended morning service in the college chapel, and once were in the pew in front of the headmaster’s wife. She had a lovely voice but in the middle of All Things Bright and Beautiful she stopped singing. Afterwards I asked why: she replied that she could not stomach the words. These were, of course: “The rich man in his castle, / The poor man at his gate, / God made them high and lowly, /And ordered their estate.”
Even though this verse is now omitted in many churches, Lord Lisvane may have a point.
John Radcliffe
London N1Comment
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And punctuation raises its head in the awkward verse:
Richer and poorer
Sir, The headmaster’s wife who could not stomach singing the verse in All Things Bright and Beautiful about the rich man in his castle and the poor man at his gate [...] might have been reassured had she realised that there should be a comma in the line “God made them, high or lowly”. Cecil Frances Alexander’s intention was not to suggest that class distinctions were divinely ordained, but rather to point to the equality of everyone before God and the fact that He made all of us, regardless of whether we end up high or lowly. This particular verse has provoked much lively comment over the years. I particularly enjoyed Auberon Waugh’s reflection in the 1980s that “the rich man almost certainly no longer lives in his castle. He has lost his money and sold it off, or if he still lives in it, he is reduced to penury by the cost of maintaining it. He has sold the lodge at the gate to a much richer man who uses it at weekends. The new arrangement, of poor man in his castle, rich man at his gate, was not ordained by God but by Mrs Thatcher.”
The Rev Professor Ian Bradley
Author, Penguin Book of Hymns
St Andrews, Fife
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How many primary schools still sing what we would recognise as hymns? The collective worship requirement takes many forms these days and even if within nodding distance of CofE the songs are unlikely to be those of the 50s when Sunday church/chapel was part of life and "everyone" knew the traditional hymns.Originally posted by Pulcinella View PostComment
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Mrs CS is close to primary teaching - where she served her whole career. And still teaches piano to primary age children.Originally posted by oddoneout View Post
The answer to your question - in a non-denomination school, the answer is almost surely "none". New head at our local infant school did away with the nativity play. At Christmas time the children know "Rudolf", "Jingle Bells" etc but are unlikely ever to become familiar with what we would consider absolutely mainstream, standard hymns or carols. (Again maybe not the case in a denominational school).
I don't know whether head teachers get a lot of grief (from governors, parents) for specifically Christian tradition music or whether they just choose to abandon them. (I'll stop here.. I'm in danger of veering into potential sympathy on this issue - the culture of this country for centuries - with the wing of a political party I revile).Comment
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Comma, yes, but the following line is "And ordered their estate."Originally posted by Pulcinella View Post
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Indeed. A very selective extract from someone who might be expected to know his hymnody a bit better!Originally posted by PeterboroughDiapason View PostComment
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Wkipedia has this: "A comparable text in Alexander's Verses for Holy Seasons (1846) makes reference to "The poor man in his straw-roofed cottage,/The rich man in his lordly hall" and states that their prayers to God are of equal importance: "He listens, and He answers all".Originally posted by PeterboroughDiapason View Post
Believers could discuss the implications for some time. And non-believers also.
I'm wondering whether anyone has ever chosen Vera Lynn singing "We''ll meet again" for a funeral?It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.Comment
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Almost certainly not at a German funeral. Particularly a vegetarian one.Originally posted by french frank View Post
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Apparently there was a 'spontaneous rendition' at Dame Vera's own funeral.Originally posted by french frank View PostComment
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Today's Times contributions:
Humour in hymns
Sir, I am surprised that Lord Williams of Oystermouth, who was my tutor at theological college nearly half a century ago, should find Come, O Thou Traveller Unknown preferable at weddings and funerals [...]. Based on the story in Genesis 32, in which Jacob spends a night wrestling with an angel, I think it is more familiar to non-conformist congregations. Many years ago I met one Monday a Free Church colleague who was still chuckling about a wedding two days earlier. The entire congregation had collapsed with laughter at the line: “With Thee all night I mean to stay, and wrestle to the break of day.”
Canon Eric Woods
Sturminster Newton, Dorset
Sir, A fellow organist was on his way to play at evensong recently and was delayed in traffic. When he arrived, the service had started without him and the congregation were singing the only hymn everyone knew and could sing unaccompanied: All Things Bright and Beautiful. Perhaps we underestimate the value of this hymn.
Julia Lister
Canterbury
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Today's offerings:
Hymns of praise
Sir, Hands off “the rich man in his castle” [...]! Together with the national anthem’s “confound their politics/frustrate their knavish tricks” (from a verse generally omitted, sadly) this line from All Things Bright and Beautiful affords a rare moment of amusement in congregational singing.
Richard Lawrence
Former chief executive, Royal School of Church Music; London SW1
Sir, My family of boys could be relied upon to chuckle at the words of what they called the bicycling hymn — otherwise known as And Can It Be, That I Should Gain — with the line “my chains fell off”, while I was left pondering the wisdom or otherwise of starting a hymn with a conjunction.
Tricia Shuler
Upton, Cheshire
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I play the organ at weddings from time to time, and ATB&B does crop up quite often. But as has been pointed out already, the standard of singing of any hymn/song can be pretty dire. Lord of the Dance is another.
Just to throw a pebble into the water, I prefer Monk’s Cross to the more common melody for ATB&B. This is not for any musical reasons, but because when I was 3years old, I was at Sunday School when the common tune was being sung; I was lying on my back crying, having a screaming tantrum.
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