Startling and sad news from Winchester Cathedral

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  • Keraulophone
    Full Member
    • Nov 2010
    • 1967

    #31
    Angela Tilby: Cathedrals should prize their choirs (Church Times, 17/5/24)


    'Cathedral choirs are one of the glories of the English Church. In cathedrals with monastic foundations, choirs replaced the monks who had sung the daily offices. These choirs survived the Reformation, largely because of Queen Elizabeth I’s love of church music. What we expect today from Westminster Abbey and King’s College, Cambridge, and many other cathedrals and collegiate foundations depends on that tradition. It cannot be taken for granted, through. It survives today through a delicate ecology of raw talent, disciplined training, professionalism, and collaboration.

    There are recent examples where this ecology has broken down. I can think of several newly appointed cathedral finance officers whose first move has been to try to cut back the choir. One cathedral precentor I know was asked to justify the “free concert” of choral evensong.

    And clergy have not always been as supportive as one might suppose. In 2001, John Dudley Irvine was appointed Dean of Coventry after a curacy at Holy Trinity, Brompton, and an incumbency in London. He made it known (was it a joke?) that he had never actually attended choral evensong, and he seemed to see it as his primary responsibility to run Alpha courses.

    Coventry recovered from that, but it is not unusual to find newly appointed cathedral clergy who argue for greater diversity, in ignorance of the network of community relationships that already undergird the music provision. Delicate community links, once broken, cannot easily be re-established. In the three cathedrals that I have been involved with during my ministry, the choirs have been more obviously socially and ethnically diverse than either the clergy or the congregation.

    The charge of elitism is serious but misguided...'


    [the rest of the article can be found here: https://www.churchtimes.co.uk/articl...e-their-choir]

    The Revd Angela Tilby is a Canon Emeritus of Christ Church Cathedral, Oxford and a Canon of Honour at Portsmouth Cathedral.​

    Comment

    • Simon Biazeck
      Full Member
      • Jul 2020
      • 301

      #32
      There seem to be glitches in the link above to the Church Times article. https://www.churchtimes.co.uk/articl...e-their-choirs

      Comment

      • Caussade
        Full Member
        • May 2011
        • 97

        #33
        Originally posted by oddoneout View Post

        Which sounds a bit as if they know who is going to be given the post and the advertising is for purposes(tick boxing) other than finding a candidate?
        They have already made the appointment yes. The name of the lucky winner is in fairly general circulation.

        Comment

        • Lizzie
          Full Member
          • Nov 2010
          • 297

          #34
          Please sight an article in Private Eye this week 22 May, which will give a very clear overview of events in Winchester. Dr Lumsden has remained absolutely silent, his integrity and leadership completely intact.
          I am currently abroad but have been keeping myself updated.

          Comment

          • Ein Heldenleben
            Full Member
            • Apr 2014
            • 6925

            #35
            Originally posted by Lizzie View Post
            Please sight an article in Private Eye this week 22 May, which will give a very clear overview of events in Winchester. Dr Lumsden has remained absolutely silent, his integrity and leadership completely intact.
            I am currently abroad but have been keeping myself updated.
            Read it - also an interesting update on St Johns where, according to Private Eye, the Master made the choir disbandment a resignation issue. What is it about choirs and why do people get so worked up about them? There’s no money in them and isn’t it a fairly innocuous pleasure ? . My theory is that the higher up the C of E and academic institutions you go the more you encounter people who clearly believe they are Gods representative on earth . Add in a bit of modish wokery and there goes the choir…

            Comment

            • Lizzie
              Full Member
              • Nov 2010
              • 297

              #36
              Today in the Mail on Sunday...

              Winchester Cathedral is reeling from the controversy that has seen key figures leave, with Canon Precentor Andy Trenier accused of a dictatorial management style.
              Winchester Cathedral is reeling from the controversy that has seen key figures leave, with Canon Precentor Andy Trenier accused of a dictatorial management style.

              Comment

              • Guest

                #37

                Comment

                • Pulcinella
                  Host
                  • Feb 2014
                  • 11058

                  #38
                  A related letter in today's Times:


                  Arts in jeopardy

                  Sir, Richard Morrison [...] bemoans the decisions of Arts Council England and the lack of accessibility of certain genres to the public owing to its behaviour. The Church of England is involved in its own destruction of an area of our culture: choral singing. In Winchester cathedral adult singers have had their status downgraded from professional musicians to “worship leaders”. In Canterbury the cathedral school is being phased out, as has happened in Gloucester already. This undermines the ability of choristers to practise sufficiently to be able to sing at the present number of services.
                  Victoria Morton
                  Salisbury

                  Comment

                  • Nazard
                    Full Member
                    • Aug 2014
                    • 21

                    #39
                    Originally posted by Pulcinella View Post
                    A related letter in today's Times:


                    Arts in jeopardy

                    Sir, Richard Morrison [...] bemoans the decisions of Arts Council England and the lack of accessibility of certain genres to the public owing to its behaviour. The Church of England is involved in its own destruction of an area of our culture: choral singing. In Winchester cathedral adult singers have had their status downgraded from professional musicians to “worship leaders”. In Canterbury the cathedral school is being phased out, as has happened in Gloucester already. This undermines the ability of choristers to practise sufficiently to be able to sing at the present number of services.
                    Victoria Morton
                    Salisbury
                    Well, that's not true about Gloucester, so no matter the merits of this letter (and I don't disagree with its broad point), it's a shame that this untruth has been published in the Times.

                    Comment

                    • oddoneout
                      Full Member
                      • Nov 2015
                      • 9268

                      #40
                      Originally posted by Nazard View Post

                      Well, that's not true about Gloucester, so no matter the merits of this letter (and I don't disagree with its broad point), it's a shame that this untruth has been published in the Times.
                      Perhaps the writer thinks that offering girl choristers the same opportunities as boys, as Gloucester now does, means the school is being phased out...

                      Comment

                      • Old Grumpy
                        Full Member
                        • Jan 2011
                        • 3642

                        #41
                        Originally posted by oddoneout View Post

                        Perhaps the writer thinks that offering girl choristers the same opportunities as boys, as Gloucester now does, means the school is being phased out...
                        Hmmm...


                        ...if this is the case - .

                        Comment

                        • Pulcinella
                          Host
                          • Feb 2014
                          • 11058

                          #42
                          Originally posted by Nazard View Post

                          Well, that's not true about Gloucester, so no matter the merits of this letter (and I don't disagree with its broad point), it's a shame that this untruth has been published in the Times.
                          As confirmed by today's contribution:

                          Cathedral singing

                          Sir, Further to Victoria Morton’s letter [...], both the cathedral school and Gloucester cathedral are in excellent health, as are their choirs. The school roll stands at 740 pupils, while the two cathedral choirs contain 16 boys and 16 girls respectively. The cathedral and the school remain committed to supporting choral music together despite the present challenges, as they have done since at least 1541.
                          David Morton, headmaster, the King’s School, Gloucester; the Very Rev Andrew Zihni, dean of Gloucester

                          Comment

                          • jonfan
                            Full Member
                            • Dec 2010
                            • 1445

                            #43
                            Private Eye of 7 June issue makes horrifying reading.

                            Comment

                            • Choral Enthusiast
                              Full Member
                              • Jun 2023
                              • 13

                              #44
                              Originally posted by jonfan View Post
                              Private Eye of 7 June issue makes horrifying reading.
                              Yes, a really distressing read.

                              Comment

                              • Vox Humana
                                Full Member
                                • Dec 2012
                                • 1252

                                #45
                                What musical qualities determined Trenier's (presumed) suitability for being a precentor? Anyone know?

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