CE Winchester Cathedral 28th Feb 2024 [L]

[Ein Heldenleben]

I had meant to have a listen again but only remembered in time to come in on the Nunc. However, the distortion was still there, it was (from memory of the original) slightly less bad than the one in the Mag, but it still sounded very obvious on the repeat. I'm slightly suprised you didn't spot it jonfan, but then EinH and I do both listen VERY critically; EinH has a very great depth of technical expertise, and is also far more up to date than I am, but I suspect we both are on alert for the same faults, having (again I suspect) had fairly similar training processes.

The fact that nothing had been done about the problem suggests that it was on the output of the mixing desk rather than further down the broadcast chain; had there been an on site recording that was clean one would assume it would have been used for the repeat, as has sometimes happened in the past.

Very flattering mw but I am very far from being a technical audio expert. I did 5 years in Radio and TV sound - enough to realise how very difficult doing a live complex music balance is . My only real expertise is in film making and journalism - my Audio knowledge is pretty much stuck in the 80’s ie on the cusp of digital . Doing a live music balance in a live outside broadcast with less control than studio and suboptimal listening conditions must be amongst the most tricky audio jobs around .That’s why music balancers along with dubbing mixers, camera Ops and film / video editors have the highest craft grades and in the case of the last category command such high freelance rates .

As you say I think it’s fair enough to comment on the technical aspects of a relay as it’s such a vital part of the whole process. It creates the whole atmosphere . CE often does this stunningly well but it has had a few technical challenges over the last few months and having worked on quite a few TV OB’s over the years I am extremely sympathetic. 99% of the time it all goes exceptionally well but occasionally…. As one boss used to say after another major editorial clanger “it’s only rock n’roll “
On a related outside broadcast note a TV lighting director once told me that the one show they all watch is Songs of Praise because it’s very difficult lighting a church and the congregation. I bet the same is true in audio of CE.

[jonfan]

Good reasoning EH. I heard it first time in the car and the glorious bass organ stops in Psalm 136 almost shook the b****y doors off [to paraphrase Michael Caine!]
On second hearing at home I marvelled again at the singing, especially now the beautiful sound in the Canticles. The only distortion was a few seconds at the climax of the Nunc Gloria, nowhere else.
It can be very irksome to choirs, waiting to read a response to their efforts, to be regaled first by numerous posts on a technical issue, let's face it, only a slight glitch, which didn't distract from what was a wonderful CE and one for my permanent archive!
Ben Collingwood, a present senior producer of CE, takes his job very seriously and always aims for the hightest of standards; a worthy successor filling Barry Rose's shoes.

[mw963]

It can be very irksome to choirs, waiting to read a response to their efforts, to be regaled first by numerous posts on a technical issue, let's face it, only a slight glitch, which didn't distract from what was a wonderful CE and one for my permanent archive!
.

I'm sorry you find my posts irksome jonfan. As I stated very early on, and which you seem to have missed, deliberately or otherwise, I enjoyed the broadcast

I in fact vowed to stop posting here about 18 months ago, due to the often poor atmosphere engendered by some posters, and wish I'd stuck to my resolution. On the Wednesday afternoon it wasn't - as you describe - a "slight glitch". An organist friend who I only rarely hear from contacted me specifically within minutes of the end of the broadcast to ask what on earth had happened, he thought his hifi was on the way out. A poster on here also thought much the same. If you didn't hear it it suggests that you aren't perhaps listening as critically as some, for whatever reason.

All that said, I heard from my organist friend again this morning, and he reckoned on the Sunday repeat that the distortion in the Mag had been removed, or certainly reduced. I didn't hear that part of the repeat so I can't confirm or deny, there was still a problem audible in the Nunc. It (the Mag distortion) is still there on the BBC sounds version, but that I think is still the Wednesday copy.

Anyway, I'll leave you and your auditory perceptions to it jonfan, you're obviously an expert.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Good reasoning EH. I heard it first time in the car and the glorious bass organ stops in Psalm 136 almost shook the b****y doors off [to paraphrase Michael Caine!]
On second hearing at home I marvelled again at the singing, especially now the beautiful sound in the Canticles. The only distortion was a few seconds at the climax of the Nunc Gloria, nowhere else.
It can be very irksome to choirs, waiting to read a response to their efforts, to be regaled first by numerous posts on a technical issue, let's face it, only a slight glitch, which didn't distract from what was a wonderful CE and one for my permanent archive!
Ben Collingwood, a present senior producer of CE, takes his job very seriously and always aims for the hightest of standards; a worthy successor filling Barry Rose's shoes.

Thanks Jonfan. All my posts mentioned the musical excellence. It’s a thread about Choral Evensong and we are perfectly entitled to talk about any aspect of the programme presentation - including the technical .. If choirs find that irksome (which I very much doubt) they might want to avoid a career in music, tv , radio or any of the public arts where such technical discussion is par for the course. Our technical debates were not even critical but a perfectly proper exploration of the issues around live choir recording - an art in itself to be honest . I don’t doubt that Ben takes his job “ very seriously” (whatever that bland PR assertion means ) and I bet he’s really annoyed about the technical glitch. I would have been when I was a senior producer.

[jonfan]

Thanks Jonfan. All my posts mentioned the musical excellence. It’s a thread about Choral Evensong and we are perfectly entitled to talk about any aspect of the programme presentation - including the technical .. If choirs find that irksome (which I very much doubt) they might want to avoid a career in music, tv , radio or any of the public arts where such technical discussion is par for the course. Our technical debates were not even critical but a perfectly proper exploration of the issues around live choir recording - an art in itself to be honest . I don’t doubt that Ben takes his job “ very seriously” (whatever that bland PR assertion means ) and I bet he’s really annoyed about the technical glitch. I would have been when I was a senior producer.

My fault with the bland assertion. CollersB used to describe setting up CEs and appreciating the choirs involved when Twitter was Twitter. He may do it on X but I’m not paying to access it.

[Ein Heldenleben]

My fault with the bland assertion. CollersB used to describe setting up CEs and appreciating the choirs involved when Twitter was Twitter. He may do it on X but I’m not paying to access it.

Thing is if you’re a senior producer you would tend to keep your public thoughts as positive as possible. The last film I made went to its technical review - these days an automated process - it had five technical (vision and audio) faults identified - trust me tiny , tiny ones that nobody other than a vision or audio engineer would spot (and in fact two didn’t on previous visual inspection ). Those faults could have cost me £500 to fix but the video people felt sorry for me and let me off. Did I complain about the faults being spotted ? Well yes a bit . But I’d put up with a hundred tech problems compared to a major legal one. That’s why I have every sympathy for other people’s technical issues…

[jonfan]

[Lizzie]

Good reasoning EH. I heard it first time in the car and the glorious bass organ stops in Psalm 136 almost shook the b****y doors off [to paraphrase Michael Caine!]
On second hearing at home I marvelled again at the singing, especially now the beautiful sound in the Canticles. The only distortion was a few seconds at the climax of the Nunc Gloria, nowhere else.
It can be very irksome to choirs, waiting to read a response to their efforts, to be regaled first by numerous posts on a technical issue, let's face it, only a slight glitch, which didn't distract from what was a wonderful CE and one for my permanent archive!
Ben Collingwood, a present senior producer of CE, takes his job very seriously and always aims for the hightest of standards; a worthy successor filling Barry Rose's shoes.

Precisely!
Thanks from Winchester!

[oddoneout]

Good reasoning EH. I heard it first time in the car and the glorious bass organ stops in Psalm 136 almost shook the b****y doors off [to paraphrase Michael Caine!]
On second hearing at home I marvelled again at the singing, especially now the beautiful sound in the Canticles. The only distortion was a few seconds at the climax of the Nunc Gloria, nowhere else.
It can be very irksome to choirs, waiting to read a response to their efforts, to be regaled first by numerous posts on a technical issue, let's face it, only a slight glitch, which didn't distract from what was a wonderful CE and one for my permanent archive!
Ben Collingwood, a present senior producer of CE, takes his job very seriously and always aims for the hightest of standards; a worthy successor filling Barry Rose's shoes.

I appreciate that it is irksome for choirs(and indeed other performers) to find that their efforts are overshadowed by issues outside their control. In this case those actually present will have been unaffected, so in that respect better than the fire alarm, emergency vehicle, or rowdy folk outside the building scenario(all of which I have experienced over the years), which cause disruption to all whether in the venue or listening from elsewhere.
I had been very much enjoying the broadcast and the quality of the music making but the nature of the technical "glitch" was such that the mood was completely lost. As I said in my original post I thought my radio had failed (and it was not a minor fleeting distortion, and wasn't only the Nunc Gloria), so it was reassuring that subsequent posts clarified that that was not the case.It was unsettling in itself, but also I was having a "bad ear" day, such that the nature of the distortion caused me physical discomfort and put me on edge to the extent that I switched off, because I didn't know whether it was my equipment and whether it would happen again.
On the assumption that the issue would have been dealt with I did listen to Sunday's repeat, and was pleased to be able to appreciate the whole service.