CE Chapel of The Queen’s College, Oxford 21.ii.24 [L]

[DracoM]

CE Chapel of The Queen’s College, Oxford 21.ii.24 [L]

Order of Service

Introit: O Lord in thy wrath (Gibbons)
Responses: Tomkins
Psalm 106: Walmisley, Hunt, Goss, How, South, Howells
First Lesson: Genesis 11 vv.1-9
Office hymn: Lord Jesus, think on me
Canticles: Humfrey in E
Second Lesson: Matthew 24 vv.15-28
Anthem: Tribulationes cordes mei (Bernabei)
Motet: Libera Nos (Tallis)
Hymn: Father, hear the prayer we offer

Voluntary: Toccata prima (Muffat)

Luke Mitchell (Organ Scholar)
Owen Rees (Director of Music)

[Guest]

Please excuse my ignorance - what is the difference between an anthem and a motet in the context of evensong?

[Simon Biazeck]

Please excuse my ignorance - what is the difference between an anthem and a motet in the context of evensong?

I’m not sure I can answer that in the specific context of Evensong, but, as I'm sure you know, ‘anthem’ comes from the Latin ‘antiphona’ (antiphon) and always precedes a psalm or canticle. I suppose if one has two pieces in this position, that might be what one would call them. In Roman and Sarum use one would repeat the antiphon after the psalm or canticle. It’s none of my business, but I would simply call them anthems in this context. Here to hinder, me! Cheers! ~S

[Vox Humana]

As Simon says, 'anthem' derives from the Latin antiphona. The medieval vernacular for antiphona was 'antem' (usually without an h). Until the Reformation choirs customarily sang a votive antiphon every day, commonly at the end of Compline. After Cranmer squashed Vespers and Compline into 'Evening Prayer' the practice of singing an 'antem' after the service continued and still does. 'Motet' is a more generic term, comprising any music with a Latin text. In the Renaisance the term was used mainly on the Continent. Actually, I can't immediately recall the English using it at all; Byrd called his motets Cantiones. For me and, I think, for most others today an anthem has an English text and a motet has a Latin one, but some evidently think differently (as above). Quite what Owen Rees's rationale is (if it is his) completely eludes me, especially since the Tallis is a setting of an antiphon.

[Simon Biazeck]

As Simon says, 'anthem' derives from the Latin antiphona. The medieval vernacular for antiphona was 'antem' (usually without an h). Until the Reformation choirs customarily sang a votive antiphon every day, commonly at the end of Compline. After Cranmer squashed Vespers and Compline into 'Evening Prayer' the practice of singing an 'antem' after the service continued and still does. 'Motet' is a more generic term, comprising any music with a Latin text. In the Renaissance, the term was used mainly on the Continent. I can't immediately recall the English using it at all; Byrd called his motets Cantiones. For me and, I think, for most others today an anthem has an English text and a motet has a Latin one, but some evidently think differently (as above). Quite what Owen Rees's rationale is (if it is his) completely eludes me, especially since the Tallis is a setting of an antiphon.

[Guest]

As Simon says, 'anthem' derives from the Latin antiphona. The medieval vernacular for antiphona was 'antem' (usually without an h). Until the Reformation choirs customarily sang a votive antiphon every day, commonly at the end of Compline. After Cranmer squashed Vespers and Compline into 'Evening Prayer' the practice of singing an 'antem' after the service continued and still does. 'Motet' is a more generic term, comprising any music with a Latin text. In the Renaisance the term was used mainly on the Continent. Actually, I can't immediately recall the English using it at all; Byrd called his motets Cantiones. For me and, I think, for most others today an anthem has an English text and a motet has a Latin one, but some evidently think differently (as above). Quite what Owen Rees's rationale is (if it is his) completely eludes me, especially since the Tallis is a setting of an antiphon.

Back in the 1970s, Norwich cathedral music lists always showed "Motet:......" at sung Eucharist, whether the text was in Latin or English.......

[Vox Humana]

Back in the 1970s, Norwich cathedral music lists always showed "Motet:......" at sung Eucharist, whether the text was in Latin or English.......

True. I don't think I have ever heard anyone refer to a "communion anthem"; it's always been "communion motet". I wonder why? .I find the term somewhat illogical. Is it because (prior to Common Worship) there was never liturgical authority for the performance of such a piece? At least the anthems at Morning and Evening Prayer were eventually sanctioned in the 1662 prayer book.

[DracoM]

Reminder: today at 4 p.m. - usual time.

[DracoM]

On the whole, good singing - BUT that MINISTER - she dropped her voice to the almost inaudible at the end of every syllable of a sentence, esp into a required response.
Grrr!

[jonfan]

Stunning singing, both vibrant and expressive. A packed service with marvellous music, especially the anthem, a discovery for me. A marathon psalm with good choice of chants to keep listeners alert. A moving act of worship with excellent spoken elements and a generous acoustic giving a feeling of the space.

[DracoM]

Yes, singing more than good, just that on RADIO, the Minister's delivery was for me truly exasperating.
Sorry.

[jonfan]

I agree but I was referring to the lessons and content of the prayers which I thought were good. Usual pre GCSE ‘what to look out for’ in the hymns which seems current practice for every CE I’m afraid.

[mopsus]

I was pleased to hear that chant by South in use somewhere other than King's Cambridge. I had not come across the Howells chant before and am surprised it doesn't turn up elsewhere - there's another by him which must be one of the most frequently sung chants on these broadcasts.

Does anyone remember the 'jazz evensong' sung by the Schola Cantorum of Oxford? I think it came from Queen's College Chapel, and it featured the same psalm as this broadcast - I recall someone drawling 'Aaron the saint of the Lord' as part of it.

I think the Humfrey canticles deserve more outings than they get. In general, the repertoire and balance showed off the upper voices more than the lower ones.