The Choir 7.6.15

[Vox Humana]

I'm not entirely sure now, but I think it might have been this one.

[ardcarp]

I just had a scroll round the site and found rather a lot of chat including the Labeque sisters talking impressively in Spanish but not playing much (at all?). But then my surfing skills are not great.

[light_calibre_baritone]

The Choir: October 4th 2015

I try to listen without throwing a brick at the radio, but today........we had this:

"My 'Choral Classic' this week is Beethoven's Missa Solemnis."

All 13 minutes of it! The Agnus Dei - complete! Gosh!

Conducted by? .............of course, since this is the BBC, John Eliot Gardner - their poster boy for all that is classical - btw, with some decidedly odd sounding soloists, and some truly awful ensemble playing.

Odd you should think that -

4 out of 5 in the Guardian

5 out of 5 from Planethugill

"Performed to perfection and brought into new, terrifying life." – The Times *****

"Nothing short of rapid-fire choral entries will do, and the Monteverdi sopranos duly shone in their ecstatic embrace of the stratosphere." – The Financial Times *****

I suppose I have a rather vested interest as I'm on the CD so can't disagree more with your rather narrow view.

[DracoM]

Chacun a son gout.

I happened not to like the balance, and I did not like the tempi, and for SMP to play 13 minutes of such a mighty work and think it gives us a chance to savour orchestra, soloists, conductor enough, I think is arrogance and folly, pretty typical of this programme. Beethoven's epic scale work in Reader's Digest bits.


That is my opinion and actually I'm not that fussed by what The Guardian and The Times or Financial Times thought of it. I'm the one buying records for my collection, and while guidance from 'critics' inside the tight magic circle of other cognoscenti who flock to the same events listen to the same recordings and rub shoulders and compare notes might be jolly illuminating, I can misguidedly choose to like or dislike as I misguidedly wish.

Last week, BAL omitted mention - like I mean a mere mention before dismissal - of one of the most celebrated recordings of the Verdi Requiem of the last forty years, so if 'critics' can do that, why should I pay much attention to them? I love the recording in question, it has been a lamp to light my way, and will remain so. I'll live with my mediocrity for I deserve pity rather than chastisement.

[jean]

That is my opinion and actually I'm not that fussed by what The Guardian and The Times or Financial Times thought of it...

That's fine; but to suggest that because you don't like it the BBC must have extramusical reasons for selecting it, isn't.

[teamsaint]

That's fine; but to suggest that because you don't like it the BBC must have extramusical reasons for selecting it, isn't.

surely its fine to suggest this, if there is evidence to back it?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

surely its fine to suggest this, if there is evidence to back it?

That's a heckova big "if", ts.

I dislike JEGgers in most Austro-German repertoire, and find his approach to the Beethoven symphonies two-dimensional and simplistic - but his two recordings of the Missa Solemnis are amongst the very finest ever to grace the microphone - if I ever had to choose only one recording of the work, it would be his DG studio recording (the '60s Karajan smuggled with me hidden in the pages of one of the books I'd be allowed to keep). And whilst I wouldn't get dragged into any programme which only presented one movement from the work, if I were ever asked which recording to use in a programme/performance about the work, it would be that very same one - it is magnificent in every respect.

DracoM's passionate independence in his response and indifference to the opinions of others is to be heartily cheered. A pity he rather dilutes the effect by referring to the "celebrated" Solti VPO Verdi Requiem recording. (Who "celebrates" this recording? Barry who had a mate who used to own a record shop in Swindon High Street? Tina from Milton Keynes who had her own plumbing business? Or those same "'critics' [why the inverted commas, by-the-way?] inside the tight magic circle of other cognoscenti who flock to the same events listen to the same recordings and rub shoulders and compare notes" whose opinions he otherwise regards with indifference?

[jean]

...if there is evidence to back it?

Is there? It hasn't been offered.

[teamsaint]

That's a heckova big "if", ts.

I dislike JEGgers in most Austro-German repertoire, and find his approach to the Beethoven symphonies two-dimensional and simplistic - but his two recordings of the Missa Solemnis are amongst the very finest ever to grace the microphone - if I ever had to choose only one recording of the work, it would be his DG studio recording (the '60s Karajan smuggled with me hidden in the pages of one of the books I'd be allowed to keep). And whilst I wouldn't get dragged into any programme which only presented one movement from the work, if I were ever asked which recording to use in a programme/performance about the work, it would be that very same one - it is magnificent in every respect.

DracoM's passionate independence in his response and indifference to the opinions of others is to be heartily cheered. A pity he rather dilutes the effect by referring to the "celebrated" Solti VPO Verdi Requiem recording. (Who "celebrates" this recording? Barry who had a mate who used to own a record shop in Swindon High Street? Tina from Milton Keynes who had her own plumbing business? Or those same "'critics' [why the inverted commas, by-the-way?] inside the tight magic circle of other cognoscenti who flock to the same events listen to the same recordings and rub shoulders and compare notes" whose opinions he otherwise regards with indifference?

My comment was about ( what I thought was) Draco's suggestion that the BBC was giving undue coverage in general to JEG's recordings and performances, not the merits of those recordings, or in the value of the BBC broacasting them in broadly appropriate numbers.

[jean]

Why would the coverage be 'undue' if they didn't lack merit?

[teamsaint]

Why would the coverage be 'undue' if they didn't lack merit?

if , ( and I'm only saying if, following DracoM's " Because its the BBC" comment), JEGs recordings and concerts get broadcasts disproportionate to their merit, and to an extent such that other worthy performance miss out.

I can think of other performers/artists where this might be thought to happen. It certainly happens with particular repertoire, as we well know.

[DracoM]

<< I can think of other performers/artists where this might be thought to happen. It certainly happens with particular repertoire, as we well know. >>

[Beware HHM]

e.g Tallis Scholars.
e.g. King's College Cambridge Choir

Not that do not have manifest merit, of course, but that the BBC tends to reach for them in a sort of default mode a tad often for my taste.

[Vox Humana]

Maybe the BBC tend to reach for those recordings by ensembles that they know have iconic status amongst many of their listeners. There's nothing wrong with playing what people want to hear - not that I wouldn't prefer a return to the more imaginative and adventurous (but no doubt more costly) programming of my youth.

[Gabriel Jackson]

and some truly awful ensemble playing.

In what way truly awful?

[light_calibre_baritone]

Yeah, it's horses for courses isn't it, but why do we automatically slag stuff off instead of praises it? I don't give a hoot what most critics write (in fact, some of it is often too personal and miss-informed that I'm amazed they keep their jobs), but why not revel in the positivity when it occasionally surfaces?

The Choir's format doesn't warrant an entire performance of a lengthy piece like Missa S; but at least some people heard a snippet of it and might go and find the full recording, or another interpretation of it and hey presto, Beethoven is now in their life.