CE Chapel of St John’s College, Cambridge Wed, 27th Sept 2023 [R]

[DracoM]

CE Chapel of St John’s College, Cambridge Wed, 27^th Sept 2023 [R]

Members of the Rodolfus Foundation Choral Course

Order of Service:

Introit: Hide not thou thy face from us, O Lord (Farrant)
Responses: Paul Spicer
Psalms 126, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131 (Garrett, Dupuis, Hurford,
Howells,Walford Davies, Lloyd)
First Lesson: 2 Kings 4 vv.1-7
Canticles: Blair in B minor
Second Lesson: John 2 vv.1-11
Anthem: And I saw a new heaven (Bainton)
Hymn: Be thou my vision (Slane)

Voluntary: Fugue in A minor BWV 543 (Bach)

Andreana Chan, James Orford (Organists)
Christopher Gray (Conductor)

Recorded 12 August.

[Pulcinella]

Ever since reading Catherine Fox's Lindchester Chronicles over summer, I can't get out of my head the appalling prospect of singing Slane in 4/4.

[DracoM]

Reminder: today at 4 p.m.

[jonfan]

6 Psalms, all with delectable chants.

[mw963]

Is it just me or is there something pretty odd about the sound? I switched from DAB to satellite after a few minutes to check on that as it sounded so odd, it's as though the different parts are all fighting for supremacy, it's almost as though the lower parts are sometimes pushed back in the mix, and as though the higher levels are being crushed with a rapid acting/releasing compression of some sort. It's actually quite a strain for me to listen to it.

That said there are peaks that shove the meters over so there's dynamic range all right, but the louder singing sounds horribly strained (and I mean technically not musically).

Ugh.

[jonfan]

Yes, this is not the sort of broadcast sound we are used to from St John’s and it does the singers a disservice. They sound a long way off which makes everything muddy and lacking in clarity. The only ‘normal’ sound is from the readers.

[DracoM]

Totally agree with all above. Muddy and IMO poorly sound-managed.

[mw963]

Thanks for the confirmation jonfan. Given that it's a recording it's unbelievable that it's as bad as it is. There definitely is a fast acting limiter (both attack and release) and it's a disgrace to the BBC to be honest.

As you say, a terrible shame for the choir, particularly as there are no wobbly trebles, which would have ensured - but for this amateur sound balance - my complete enjoyment of the broadcast. As it is I'm struggling to keep listening.

[jonfan]

Our full enjoyment of this service was severely impaired by the very poor sound balances. (As it’s August maybe the premier teams were at the Proms?) There was undoubtedly very beautiful committed singing from these trainee choristers, revelling in the moment. Just occasionally there was some sour intonation but that could be the fault of the recording? A stunning Bach Fugue to finish.

[ardcarp]

A stunning Bach Fugue to finish.

Agreed, but in doing so I don't mean any disrespect to the choir.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Is it just me or is there something pretty odd about the sound? I switched from DAB to satellite after a few minutes to check on that as it sounded so odd, it's as though the different parts are all fighting for supremacy, it's almost as though the lower parts are sometimes pushed back in the mix, and as though the higher levels are being crushed with a rapid acting/releasing compression of some sort. It's actually quite a strain for me to listen to it.

That said there are peaks that shove the meters over so there's dynamic range all right, but the louder singing sounds horribly strained (and I mean technically not musically).

Ugh.

I only half listened on FM yesterday as I was working. Listening back on sounds it does have that pumping , tight sound that suggests compression . I can’t really work out whether it’s on just in the trebles or the entire choir . I suspect the former - maybe both . For those of a technical bent I wonder whether the compressors on the outside broadcast gear were set up correctly? Equally it could have been introduced in the edit , or even on transmission . The only thing I can say with any authority is that choirs and organs in churches can go from near inaudible to needle bending within the twinkling of an eye and if they are amateurs they may not stick to the dynamic levels they delivered in rehearsal.

The reason all the speech sounded ok (apart curiously from the opening celebrant maybe using a church mic) is because the dynamic range is so predictable and relatively narrow,

On Jonfan’s question of whether compression can affect apparent pitch that’s a really interesting point . Severe compression on instruments like the piano can give the impression of bending the sound particularly as it decays. You hear it a lot on Classic FM.

I don’t think the recording that bad to be honest and I really hate compression . I always ask for zero compression when recording film voiceovers.

[jonfan]

Thank you EH for your technical and clear explanations. Listening again through closed back B&W headphones I’m enjoying the choir much more. Has some tweaking been done since yesterday as the singers seem much closer in the mix? One has a proper feeling of the Chapel space with all the parts of the choir clearly heard, and how fantastic they sound now, the Canticles giving particular pleasure.

[OtherwiseSatis]

A problem on transmission apparently, compression that shouldn't have been there. All was OK (in fact delightful) on Sunday TX and good version on Sounds now.

[mw963]

Thank you OtherwiseSatis for the update. I'll dip in again. But it doesn't say much for technical standards at the BBC if something so obvious went uncorrected.

And the reason that I protested loudly is that dynamics compression is a creeping evil - once allowed it tends to get embedded. For example, for years BBC VHF/FM was dynamically transparent (apart from a safety limiter) from studio to listener on all networks. In about 1985 Radio 1 (when using the Radio 2 FM network) procured and used an Optimod (broadcast compressor) to make itself louder. Then Radio 2 got one because they were jealous and were worried they'd lose listeners through "being too quiet" on FM. Then John Drummond thought Radio 3 was too quiet and hissy on FM and ordered one - in the teeth of huge opposition from Presentation and Music Depts - for Drivetime Radio 3, in March 1989. Eventually Radio 4 got one.

Radio 3 on digital platforms is the only BBC network that doesn't have dynamics compression, and listeners have to be constantly vigilant to ensure that this situation is maintained, because once it's lost it's unlikely that it can be restored.

As I only listen to Choral Evensong (and to that less and less now it almost always studiously avoids a standard single cathedral choir on a run of the mill wet weekday) I couldn't really care less what Radio 3 does with its sound, but it would be a shame for others who care about sound to lose the only high audio quality network that's left.

[Ein Heldenleben]

[QUOTE=OtherwiseSatis;n1286275]A problem on transmission apparently, compression that shouldn't have been there. All was OK (in fact delightful) on Sunday TX and good version on Sounds now.[

I would be interested to know where in the broadcast chain this “transmission only “ compression was introduced. I would be surprised if it was downstream of the OB - why would that live programme out of many other lives be singled out even by “accident” ? I suppose on repeat we heard a “clean” recording simultaneously done .

Interesting about the Drummond optimod policy , I always thought he had a decent set of ears. In those days there was a lot of obsession with in car drive time listening and compression helped that. These days of curse* a car stereo can easily wake an entire street up.

* a magnificently appropriate auto correct left in .