CE King's College, Cambridge. Wed, 4th March

[jean]

excuse my liturgical ignorance, Jean, I always assumed that Matins was an early morning service, but perhaps I am wrong.

I see what you mean - and you're right, except that the 'morning' period for Matins ended at dawn.

That's why Tenebrae really was originally sung in darkness.

[jean]

The trouble is, many cathedrals and parish churches now have a morning service which tries to encompass both...e.g. it may start with some responses and a Psalm and then morph into Eucharist.

I do know that for some institiutions, it's not so much Matins morphing into the Eucharist as a lifting of the abomination that is the Responsorial Psalm straight from the modern Roman liturgy.

(Does anyone still put the Gloria in its BCP place, at the end of the service?)

[Simon Biazeck]

St Paul's and probably the Abbey (last time I looked) have no more than15 minutes with the full choir before a service. Westminster Cathedral I think may have even less than that for Vespers, but I am very happy to be corrected on that point.

St Paul's Evensong is 4.30 for 5.00
Mass & Vespers at the Drome is 4.20 for 5.00 in which all the music for Vespers and Mass is covered.

[light_calibre_baritone]

I do know that for some institiutions, it's not so much Matins morphing into the Eucharist as a lifting of the abomination that is the Responsorial Psalm straight from the modern Roman liturgy.

(Does anyone still put the Gloria in its BCP place, at the end of the service?)

Southwell? Will need clarification though... I've not been for a while.

[Simon Biazeck]

My grandfather was very good friends with Watkins Shaw, with whom I spent many afternoons chatting about music. He always said that after Smith his favourite responses were Clucas, because they were engaging musically but were also liturgically perfect. I remember asking him about the Howells, and he said (I paraphrase) "wonderful music, awful responses".

Harsh but fair! They'd be the one 'naughty' set I would programme, along with own, of course, which are quite safe, but not uninteresting. (check your in box here!)

Perhaps DoM could 'take up' lush, overwritten sets as a Lenten observance; a sort of aural mortification. Punishment for some, heaven for others!

June Nixon used to do Thomas Tunnard with an "Englished" version of the Duruflè Pater noster, which worked very well. She also wrote a lovely set for ATB which are dedicated to me!

[ardcarp]

I don't know who June Nixon was, but as it's Women's Week, do tell us.

I do know of TT tho'...wasn't he at B'ham Cathedral?

[Magnificat]

The trouble is, many cathedrals and parish churches now have a morning service which tries to encompass both...e.g. it may start with some responses and a Psalm and then morph into Eucharist. That plus a sermon makes it last at least an hour and a half...a strain on the bladders of elderly Anglicans if nothing else.

As far as:


...what about all the Te Deums and Jubilates ever written? Much of the Victorian/Edwardian repertoire is arguably not the finest art-music ever written, but dismal? I still find Stanford's good old Te Deum in B flat quite stirring to sing/play/listen to.

Ardcarp

Exactly.

The mere fact that the Te Deum is hardly ever sung in most cathedrals is an absolute disgrace. If you are lucky you may get it as an add on to Evensong on CE.

I reckon that at St Albans they have lost half the repertoire they had before cutting Choral Matins to one a month. And the Dean and Chapter say they support the music. They do I am sure but with the Eucharist ( the most important service though it undoubtedly is ) they have gone completely over the top. They have Masses coming out of their ears there now - there is no need for it. They never had any of the problems that Caussade above highlighted as there was only ever either Matins or Eucharist on Sunday mornings never both. It was a numbers thing although Matins congregations were never that much lower than for Eucharist as far as I remember.

As I said above the clergy know best or so they like to think LOL

The singing is still brilliant though which is a saving grace.


VCC.



VCC

[Simon Biazeck]

I don't know who June Nixon was, but as it's Women's Week, do tell us.

I do know of TT tho'...wasn't he at B'ham Cathedral?

June Nixon was DoM at St Paul's, Melbourne and retired a couple of years ago after 40 years in the post. She was a prolific composer of choral & organ music and set the entire Psalter(!) We weren't always sure that was a great idea, but her writing was very fine and very much in a late 19th and early 20th c. style. Stanford, Elgar and Stainer were her heroes. We did her full choir responses regularly - well written and effective, as I recall.

Yes, Thomas Tunnard was at St. Philip's Cathedral, Birmingham.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Tunnard

[ardcarp]

Is she (June Nixon) going to figure somewhere in this week's celebrations? Worth a tweet to Breakfast or something?

[Simon Biazeck]

Is she (June Nixon) going to figure somewhere in this week's celebrations? Worth a tweet to Breakfast or something?

Not as far as I am aware. Good suggestion. I'll give them a stir.

[mopsus]

'Chants Old and New' edited by Anthony Crossland has several chants by June Nixon. As it's based on the chants used at Wells Cathedral, they may have been in use there.
I've sung the Tunnard responses, but have never heard them on an evensong broadcast.

As for Matins, it is still the principal morning service at Bath Abbey. The 'choristers are in the building for 7 hours' argument against it collapses with the advent of girls; at Bath the boys sing Matins and the girls the Eucharist, or vice versa, on any given Sunday.

[decantor]

There was a substantial article about Dr June Nixon's forty years at St Paul's, Melbourne, in the 2/13 issue of Cathedral Music, the magazine of the FCM. Unsurprisingly, every note sung or played at her 'Farewell' service (Feb 2013) came from her own pen.

[bach736]

Like Margaret Rizza, June Nixon is a stalwart of the Kevin Mayhew catalogue.

[DracoM]

Reminder@ today @ 3.30 p.m.
By which I mean the actual Choral Evensong as in OP!!

[Vox Humana]

'Chants Old and New' edited by Anthony Crossland has several chants by June Nixon. As it's based on the chants used at Wells Cathedral, they may have been in use there.

I expect there is a solid Wells core in Chants Old and New, but I am sure the contents must have been drawn from a variety of sources. A number seem to have been taken from the Norwich chant book of the Michael Nicholas era.

Like Margaret Rizza, June Nixon is a stalwart of the Kevin Mayhew catalogue.

Not everyone would regard that as a recommendation.