CE Christ Church, Oxford Wed, 14th Jan 2015

[ardcarp]

In past years, some of the great choirmasters established and maintained their own characteristic 'treble sound'. There may be good years and slightly less good years, but one can only be amazed at the consistency. I think the 'voice' coach' thing is relatively recent. The pool of boys' voices is probably smaller than it was, and that coupled with earlier voice-change probably makes the job harder than ever. On any particular live broadcast, one never knows if a spate of illness (especially at this time of year) has picked off one or two of the stalwarts, and if some slightly less experienced choristers have had to 'step u to the plate'. Luckily, we listeners are not privy to behind-the-scenes panics and dramas.

[Magnificat]

An innocent question to those of you who know what's what. I fully appreciate that changing personnel, particularly on the top line, brings inevitable ups and downs for any DoM, but I thought that these trebles had an unpleasantly strangulated tone. I am fairly sure that this was due to just one especially dominant boy, but, nevertheless, I was left wondering how much of a top line's tone should be laid at the door of the voice coach and how much at that of the DoM. Just how much control over the tone does a DoM have these days?

VH

I have no idea about this at all, I can only observe that at St Albans Barry Rose's voice coach still works with Andrew Lucas and the tone of the boys is definitely different. As far as I can judge Andrew has always been his own man in this respect.

VCC.

[Wolsey]

Excellent voluntary, with Francis Pott's individual harmonic style clearly recognisable. Considering a good deal of 20th/21st century music can be far more dissonant and/or devoid of a tonal centre, what is all the fuss about?

[mopsus]

I thoroughly enjoyed listening to today's broadcast. As I'm sure you all know, the turnover of this choir is such that the membership changes a lot from year to year, and so there are most likely many new singers in the choir this year. Therefore "the truly sublime choir on the Eton Choirbook CDs" as you put it, simply no longer exists...

I am as always willing to be corrected on this, but I think that Christ Church cathedral choir has some non-academical lay clerks, which means a slower turnover of the back row than say Magdalen College or King's College Cambridge. Of course there can be a rapid turnover if several of them leave in a short space of time.

[mw963]

Seeing as I seem to be in a minority of one on Mr Pott, I'd perhaps better say that I first heard one of his voluntaries (maybe the same one?) probably twenty-five or thirty years ago on a broadcast and I'm afraid it did nothing for me then either.

I can only guess but the enthusiasts for his music here all seem to be people who know what they're talking about. Would they be representative of the sort of people actually attending a Choral Evensong? Maybe in an Oxbridge setting yes, but elsewhere?

I ask because it seems that often it's the organ that somehow is used at the end of the service as a sort of confrontational challenge, maybe to remind fuddy duddies like me that not all music is red-meat late 19th/early 20th C stuff, almost as though we need a jolt out of our complacency. And it is a jolt, something by Mathias or Leighton as a voluntary has me hurrying for the off-switch (well, in reality no, I do try to listen and understand every time, but without success!!).

I stick by what I say, it's not beautiful music, it may be very clever, but it doesn't (at least for me) fit in with what's gone before and leaves an acerbic taste in the musical mouth.

It's not my intention to be impolite, but many others on this forum say PRECISELY what they think, and given how little organ music there is on Radio 3 we seem to have had a run of not-desperately-beautiful music tacked on to CE recently.

And I still think that final chord is "plonked". No other word for it.

Now how about a nice bit of Howells or Whitlock.....

[DracoM]

Chacun a son gout.

I thought the contrast between the sung material and the played material i.e. the voluntary was instructive, energising and a useful dialectic.

[mw963]

But that's my point DracoM. You're a professional in the field.

I can't be the only one who leaves the scene disappointed, baffled, and musically disorientated.

Although I do note that Mr Pott is an authority on Medtner, one of my favourite composers.

[DracoM]

If you go into any musical experience with pre-determined ideas as to what should constitute ' nice music' , you're going to have a heck of a lot of nasty experiences. Try Essential Classics daily, or CFM.

[mw963]

They're not pre-determined ideas DracoM. I listened to Radio 3 regularly (in fact bordering on the obsessively) from 1970 (when I was 10) right up to 1992 when it was vandalised by Kenyon. Believe me I have tried. One of my worst experiences was studying "The Soldier's Tale" for O-level, a process that means I detest to this day most of dear Igor's compositions.

I'm not sure whether your post is suggesting that I *should* listen to Essential Classics and Classic FM because I'd be better off there or whether you're saying that they play "not-nice-music". I actually spend most of the time listening to Bayern Klassik and other German classical stations. Radio 3 is sadly a no go area for me since the act of vandalism I have alluded to, except once a week for Choral Evensong.

[DracoM]

Thoughts on this should perhaps be on a different thread? Just a suggestion.

[Gabriel Jackson]

But that's my point DracoM. You're a professional in the field.

Really?

[Vox Humana]

In past years, some of the great choirmasters established and maintained their own characteristic 'treble sound'. There may be good years and slightly less good years, but one can only be amazed at the consistency. I think the 'voice' coach' thing is relatively recent. The pool of boys' voices is probably smaller than it was, and that coupled with earlier voice-change probably makes the job harder than ever. On any particular live broadcast, one never knows if a spate of illness (especially at this time of year) has picked off one or two of the stalwarts, and if some slightly less experienced choristers have had to 'step u to the plate'. Luckily, we listeners are not privy to behind-the-scenes panics and dramas.

Very true - and I imagine that it can also happen that a boy who is a valuable leader because of his experience, reliability and musicianship may nevertheless have a less than optimum voice.

I have no idea about this at all, I can only observe that at St Albans Barry Rose's voice coach still works with Andrew Lucas and the tone of the boys is definitely different. As far as I can judge Andrew has always been his own man in this respect.

Thank you. That's interesting.

[Wolsey]

....Although I do note that Mr Pott is an authority on Medtner, one of my favourite composers.

Composition aside, Professor Pott has - by any standard - a distinguished track record as an academic .

[The Baron of the Backs]

[QUOTE=manyexcellentgifs;462013]
Especially to hear it so differently played from its début Radio outing from Picton-Turbervill of SJC - not of course that it wasn't wonderful. It seemed both longer and shorter, almost like a page had been added.

There was a certain Je ne sais quoi lacking from Mr Picton-Turbervill's performance. I couldn't put my finger on it at the time...

[Vile Consort]

Now how about a nice bit of Howells or Whitlock.....

Howells on that organ? And in that acoustic? Are you serious?