Nine Lessons and Carols 25.xii.14

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

A bit harsh, Alpie? True, the Cleobury descants are unmemorable when put alongside those of Willcocks which have stood the test of time. As I've said already, the Willcocks descants are great tunes in their own right.

Unkind, possibly, but harsh, no. I remember my initial shock when Philip Ledger replaced the Willcocks with his own. However, within 12 months, I realised they were very good too. Many years down the line, SC's descants sound as messy and rambling as ever. I just want to squirm every time ai hear them.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Indeed, I replaced the Once in Royal.Willcocks descant with this one for my own school carol services, and never looked back.

http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KLqIPDCpxUOF8Axrj7w8QF;_ylu=X3oDMTByZ2N0cmxpBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDBGdwb3MDMg--?p=youtube+once+in+royal+philip+ledger&vid=dc1989426c8df55d62ca5864b1864c5d&l=4%3A57&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DVN.608002704768107596%26pid%3D15.1&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DF9qezyFr774&tit=King%26%2339%3Bs+College+Cambridge+2012+%231+%3Cb%3EOnce+in+Royal+%3C%2Fb%3EDavid%26%2339%3Bs+City&c=1&sigr=11alk4lr7&sigt=12aj80a73&age=194232520600&fr2=p%3As%2Cv%3Av%2Cm%3Asa&&tt=b

But never this.

[edashtav]

I think that's one of the best commissioned carols in recent memory, which from an established name like Carl Rutti we would probably expect.

Agreed.

[VodkaDilc]

And, as usual, I get goosebumps on top of goosebumps at 'Word of the Father' - a thrilling sound as I pump up the volume.

Interesting to hear the vertsion of "O Come all ye faithful" in the televised service from 1954. A virtually identical chord was used in the penultimate verse (without descant in those days.) Similarly the striking harmonies from the last line of Willcocks' last verse appeared in the 1954 version. I had always associated these features with Willcocks' arrangements, but perhaps, to some degree, he was just formalising what was a Kings' tradition. (I'm by no means down-playing his achievements. I am one of those who feel the Willcocks descants are unsurpassable.)

[mw963]

Fully agreed. Even when I'm working on Christmas Eve I used to record and listen later in the evening and have never heard it on R3.

And, as usual, I get goosebumps on top of goosebumps at 'Word of the Father' - a thrilling sound as I pump up the volume.

One advantage of the Radio 3 repeat is that - provided one listens to one of the digital versions (DAB DSat or DTT) - the sound will not be subjected to (otherwise described as ruined by) automatic dynamics processing. After the introduction of Optimod on Radio 4 FM in the early 1990s it was the case that for several years the offending brown box was switched out from the FM feed for the Christmas Eve broadcast (in about 1996 the defeat was forgotten until about 15.25 but that's another story). However, not only is this exception no longer allowed by Radio 4 management (obsessed with "everything must be as loud as possible") but the digital feeds of Radio 4 are also - since about 2006 - victims of quite aggressive processing. It's why Sunday Worship sounds so terrible, with big sings being knocked right back.

However, apart from Radio 3 FM (where in any case it's not as aggressively set as Radio 4) the digital platforms of Radio 3 are not processed, so that "Word of the Father" line will not be knocked back as it tends to be on Radio 4, unless of course the engineers on site have miscalculated and a limiter at the OB itself is triggered.

I don't know if Radio 4 are still providing an internet HD sound version on Christmas Eve, they did for a few years and it made for a much better wide-dynamics sound.

And of course we get the second voluntary on Radio 3, although even Widor had trouble competing with those oh-so-important conversations and the "let's get out of here as fast as possible" mentality that seems to afflict so many of those who make such an effort to get in there a couple of hours earlier!!

[Mr Stoat]

I loved the Rutti piece. Quite the best commission in recent years. Regarding descants, I liked SC's "first" setting of "Once in royal", but am not keen on the more recent one. Whilst I like Willcocks for "O come" I do feel that a change is good, as I have come across congregations who think that everyone is supposed to sing the descant as they hear it so often!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Regarding descants, I liked SC's "first" setting of "Once in royal", but am not keen on the more recent one. Whilst I like Willcocks for "O come" I do feel that a change is good, as I have come across congregations who think that everyone is supposed to sing the descant as they hear it so often!

Very true. There have been calls to restore "traditional" descants at King's - even though theCleobury ones have been used there on more occasions than the Willcocks ones.

But if we are to have descants at all, they should enhance the experience rather than cause embarrassment.

[Petrushka]

But if we are to have descants at all, they should enhance the experience rather than cause embarrassment.

Yes, this is very true. A good descant should enhance the main tune not battle against it/drown it out. Not all good hymn tunes benefit from a descant: the one for 'It Came upon the Midnight Clear' is truly terrible (in my opinion, of course) and the last verse is better, and more effective, sung unison.

[ardcarp]

I dislike descants that sound 'contrived' and just dodge around high up trying to 'fit in' with the harmony' . IMVHO a worthy descant should:

1. Use some thematic material from the main tune
2. Be based on a total or partial re-harmonisaton
3. Not be set note-against-note, but have a life of its own, eg have independent phrase-lengths and word placing

A brilliant example is Andrew Carter's last verse of O come O Come Emmanuel, and an outrageous one is Howells' own descant to All my hope (Michael)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

A brilliant example is Andrew Carter's last verse of O come O Come Emmanuel, and an outrageous one is Howells' own descant to All my hope (Michael)

We sang that in December, in front of Andrew Carter himself on the great man's 75th birthday.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Yes, this is very true. A good descant should enhance the main tune not battle against it/drown it out. Not all good hymn tunes benefit from a descant: the one for 'It Came upon the Midnight Clear' is truly terrible (in my opinion, of course) and the last verse is better, and more effective, sung unison.

I'm not sure to which descant this refers. There's on for "It Came Upon..." by Thomas F. Dunhill, which superimposes a Gloria over the last verse. In this case, I suppose it does "battle" somewhat, but the effect is positive, and the fact that the words are different from the main text is actually beneficial.