Songs of Praise to get a 'makeover'.....

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I'm not sure that I don't like this version of ‘He who would valiant be’ better.

I prefer the HIPP version.

[Miles Coverdale]

I thought that one was pretty hip, actually.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

It sounds a bit like a 'parish magazine' article bent on ridiculing the practices and people, doesn't it? I don't think it does any credit at all - either to the writer or, particularly, to the magazine that published it.

But that's just from a neutral standpoint. I must just be of a sensitive nature

I was the editor. This particular article went down rather well - an antidote to some different viewpoints expressed in a previous issue.

[Alison]

There's a lot to be said for not criticising other people's worship. It's an unchristian attitude.

[ardcarp]

There's a lot to be said for not criticising other people's worship. It's an unchristian attitude.

...in general, yes, but there are some weird sects. This one....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agapemonites

....really didn't do much harm beyond causing a certain moral outrage at the time. Others which still exist could be considered harmful for their attitudes to women, children and those who choose to leave the fold. And would you want to be harangued about the wrath of God by a preacher from, for instance, the southern (US) baptists?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

There's a lot to be said for not criticising other people's worship. It's an unchristian attitude.

Yes, but it works both ways.

[Despina dello Stagno]

Do you know how drummers in West Gallery bands played in the 1780s or 1880s? It may be quite authentic for all that is known on the subject.

I realise this question is a rhetorical flourish, but I shall try and contribute a little to the answer, as an enthusiast of Georgian psalmody.

West gallery bands were dead by the 1880s (See Thomas Hardy's accounts of the decline) although a capella psalmody seems to have survived longer. What I observe is probably true from the 1780s to the 1840s (the heyday of west gallery, judging by the frequency of extant manuscripts).

I am sceptical of the practice of percussion accompaniment. I have seen no accounts of it. However, the serpent is one of the most frequently recorded instruments; a (predominantly) military instrument which suggests adoption by military personnel (fencibles, yeomanry, etc). There is no reason why snaredrums should not have been adopted by the same route.
Rhythms are likely to have been very basic, like those of all the early dance theorists. However military-trained drummers would have been trained to beat a different pattern to each tune, made recognisable by distinctive combinations of beats and rolls. (Regimental marches are often referred to as being beaten; the contributions on pitched instruments seem entirely incidental). Perhaps these distinctive patterns were applied to hymns. Interest in the form of syncopation and back-beats would be unlikely (and not introduced until the popularity of the Cakewalk?)
The most likely instrument to provide percussion would have been the all-pervading pipe and tabor. But with one arm playing the pipe the opportunity for paradiddles would have been strictly limited.
And the bodhran style which infects so much post-war accompanied folksong is completely anachronistic.

[Miles Coverdale]

You might find this thesis interesting (it opens as a PDF). To be honest, I don't really care if it's 'authentic' or not. I enjoy it, and I think the percussion adds something to the music, which I might enjoy less if it were not there. Let's not forget that in certain areas of early music, authenticity may not necessarily be entirely desirable.

[Despina dello Stagno]

Thank you for the link to the thesis, which I have downloaded and saved, to suck the goodness from it at leisure.

I originally encountered "naïve" psalmody with a "folky" susceptibility (I was interested in how the oral tradition could inform HIPP) and from the shape-note direction. This remains one of my desert island discs, in certain moods**, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9qlI6hQYy0 or the American tradition which it is based e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fU_QFvkPJvw These are a living tradition and performing styles, with a little application and imagination, can be traced back through Billings to English psalmody and ultimately to Este's psalter. But these days I prefer interpretations a little more complex.
William Kimber, morris musician par excellence and principal informant to Cecil Sharpe was disparaging about revivalist musicians providing "lots of brisk and no interest". I am afraid that these days the likes of Steeleye no longer provide me with a a sugar rush by their use of wattage and percussion.
Perhaps the best interpretations of West Gallery (IM'UO) are those marriages of trained instruments with untrained voices marshalled by Peter Holman. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shepherds-Wa...salmody+holman is the best of 3 similar cds and well worth the modest cover price (I'm afrais I can't identify a site on which to sample it).

**drink taken and maudlin

[ardcarp]

In the village hall at Stoke Abbot in Dorset (definitely Hardy country) is a glass case with a couple of instruments (a rudimentary 'clarionet' and a wooden flute) which are known to have been used in the gallery 'choir'. I have not been there for a while so am speaking from memory, but I imagine they may have been used quite late into the nineteenth century. No sign of percussion. Hardy doesn't mention it in UTGT, and I find it hard to believe it would have been considered fit and proper even before Oxford Reform days.

[Alison]

Yes, but it works both ways.

Most definitely. We get quite a lot of teaching around Christian unity and not thinking we're any better than the cathedral or high anglican stuff going on down the road.

Must catch up with the latest SoP. I hope some editions feature one tradition or style without having to make every week a totally mixed bag.

[Miles Coverdale]

In the village hall at Stoke Abbot in Dorset (definitely Hardy country) is a glass case with a couple of instruments (a rudimentary 'clarionet' and a wooden flute) which are known to have been used in the gallery 'choir'. I have not been there for a while so am speaking from memory, but I imagine they may have been used quite late into the nineteenth century. No sign of percussion. Hardy doesn't mention it in UTGT, and I find it hard to believe it would have been considered fit and proper even before Oxford Reform days.

The thesis I linked to makes specific reference to drums and drummers. Not many, admittedly, but they are there. In any case, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

[Miles Coverdale]

I am afraid that these days the likes of Steeleye no longer provide me with a a sugar rush by their use of wattage and percussion.

I saw them live only a few weeks ago. It was a very good show.