CE Royal Holloway, University of London 15th October 2014

**DracoM** · 10-10-14, 09:20

I'm afraid I did a bit of a double-take when setting up the OP.
St Teresa of Avila, one of the more obviously deep Catholic saints in the calendar?
Right, so
[a] might not some Catholic foundation have been found to celebrate it?
[b] might not some more apparently Catholic and / or Spanish music of the period have been programmed as a way of linking day with repertoire? As opposed to what feels like pretty regular 'English' even 'Anglican' items - Finzi, Holst, Ferguson? All very fine in their own right, of course, but.......?

In all honesty, I just don't quite see the point of very obviously headlining the day's dedication, that's all!

Maybe I'm being too picky?

Who cares?

**chrisjstanley** · 10-10-14, 09:56

One of those all too rare occasions when the 15th evening falls on a Wednesday and one looks expects and as usual with the BBC ends up bitterly disappointed.

Psalm 78 forever !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FFS

bws
Chris S

**DracoM** · 10-10-14, 10:43

Well spotted! Sorry - bit slow on the uptake this a.m.

**Keraulophone** · 10-10-14, 11:19

They should have put down Ps 78, then fitted the rest of the music around it; but with Finzi, Holst, Harvey et al, no chance of that.
Looks as though they're putting on a show for the radio, rather than a typical service of CE. Well, they're not the first to do so, I suppose.

**ardcarp** · 10-10-14, 12:13

Well, I hope they do put on a show for R3 CE. It's a great music list and I Love the Harvey! Looking forward to it.

**underthecountertenor** · 10-10-14, 13:14

Originally posted by Keraulophone View Post

They should have put down Ps 78, then fitted the rest of the music around it; but with Finzi, Holst, Harvey et al, no chance of that.
Looks as though they're putting on a show for the radio, rather than a typical service of CE. Well, they're not the first to do so, I suppose.

Oh for goodness' sake. Why are so many people here so hung up on this fifteenth evening psalm 78 thing? WHY should RH have put down psalm 78? Just because it is stipulated in the BCP? They are, as I understand it, using the portion of psalmody appointed for the evening of Wednesday in Week 4 in the Church of England weekday lectionary cycle. They would be 'putting on a show for the radio' if, whilst normally abiding by the modern lectionary, they decided to hang it all and sing psalm 78 instead, for the simple pleasure of imagining the be-anoraked nation huddling round their collective wirelesses, and hugging themselves in scarcely containable excitement.

As to the reference above to being disappointed by the BBC: unless you can show that Royal Holloway normally abides by the BCP prescription, but has been cajoled by the BBC into adopting a different lectionary for the purposes of the broadcast, the comment is ill-founded. Or are you suggesting that someone in the BBC should have thought: 'Ooh, the 15th evening falls on a Wednesday: let's go to a Cathedral where they always plough through Psalm 78. Otherwise we might risk upsetting the anoraks!'?

**underthecountertenor** · 10-10-14, 14:55

Originally posted by DracoM View Post

Who cares?

Probably no one. But a moment's research, before posting, could have revealed to you that the title of the Ferguson motet is the first line of a prayer of St Teresa of Avila, and that the words of the Bednall introit may well also be based on her poetry. Alternatively, you could have waited and seen whether, and if so how, the dedication was acknowledged in the service.

Alternatively again, you could have just waded in and told everyone that you don't see the point of headlining the day's dedication.

Oh, do that one then.

**tjrm_93** · 10-10-14, 15:34

I feel many would appreciate some background on the highly unusual chaplaincy and faith system at Royal Holloway, and it may help to quash some of the misguided comments already apparent here.

Royal Holloway's chapel is unusual in that it is not consecrated. It was the belief of Royal Holloway's founder, Thomas Holloway, that the chapel should be used by all Christian demoninations to worship freely and together. These days, the chaplaincy team is headed up by an Anglican chaplain, Revd Cate, and a Catholic chaplain, Father John, who conduct their own seperate services in the chapel and even occasionally conduct joint services which bring together all Christian students. Evensong is sung once a week, with a more ecumenical service being held on Sunday, and Catholic masses also being held on some Sundays. The choir sing at most of these services, including four morning services a week(!). It is vastly different to most Cathedral and collegiate foundations, and as a result, the argument that the 15th evening should be sung is massively irrelevant in this case. The chaplaincy have no need or desire to put down appointed psalms, because evensong is not the chaplaincy's focus. It is there once a week for those who require it. Furthermore, I believe one of the main points of the Choral Evensong programme is that it shows a typical evensong at each place. This is a typical midweek evensong for Royal Holloway and therefore I cannot see how anyone can argue that not including the 15th evening is somehow wrong or disappointing.

For those interested, the Barry Ferguson anthem does set a text by St Teresa of Avila. The Ferguson responses are also something to listen out for - they are stunning yet rarely performed!

**french frank** · 10-10-14, 16:29

Very illuminating - that clears up a few matters. Thank you very much, tjrm_93.

**keol27** · 10-10-14, 17:13

What is the obsession with the 15th evening psalms these days? Many Cathedral's don't even sing 'psalms appointed for the XX evening'...! St. Paul's Cathedral doesn't. Also, if people want a true representation of evensong at an Academic Institution/Cathedral etc... surely, they should provide an example of what evensong would actually be like...! If RH doesn't do psalms for the day in daily evensong without the red light and BBC, they shouldn't have to on Radio 3 either.

Although I like the 15th evening psalms (especially the text...), it takes far to much time up on a Broadcast. The choir are then severely limited in what repertoire they could do...!

Yeah, WHO CARES!

**underthecountertenor** · 10-10-14, 18:16

Originally posted by tjrm_93 View Post

I feel many would appreciate some background on the highly unusual chaplaincy and faith system at Royal Holloway, and it may help to quash some of the misguided comments already apparent here.

Royal Holloway's chapel is unusual in that it is not consecrated. It was the belief of Royal Holloway's founder, Thomas Holloway, that the chapel should be used by all Christian demoninations to worship freely and together. These days, the chaplaincy team is headed up by an Anglican chaplain, Revd Cate, and a Catholic chaplain, Father John, who conduct their own seperate services in the chapel and even occasionally conduct joint services which bring together all Christian students. Evensong is sung once a week, with a more ecumenical service being held on Sunday, and Catholic masses also being held on some Sundays. The choir sing at most of these services, including four morning services a week(!). It is vastly different to most Cathedral and collegiate foundations, and as a result, the argument that the 15th evening should be sung is massively irrelevant in this case. The chaplaincy have no need or desire to put down appointed psalms, because evensong is not the chaplaincy's focus. It is there once a week for those who require it. Furthermore, I believe one of the main points of the Choral Evensong programme is that it shows a typical evensong at each place. This is a typical midweek evensong for Royal Holloway and therefore I cannot see how anyone can argue that not including the 15th evening is somehow wrong or disappointing.

For those interested, the Barry Ferguson anthem does set a text by St Teresa of Avila. The Ferguson responses are also something to listen out for - they are stunning yet rarely performed!

I'm entirely with you on all that. I assume, however, that it's no coincidence that the psalm portion to be sung is the same as that prescribed in the CofE lectionary. Perhaps it's not a speculation too far to think that someone, whether Revd Cate or Rupert, had an eye to that when choosing the psalm? In any event, as I intimated and keol27 has reinforced, there are plenty of churches, cathedrals and chapels who don't follow the BCP cycle. It seems that it's only on a 15th evening broadcast that people hereabouts even notice that fact and start to get unhealthily exercised about it.

**Miles Coverdale** · 10-10-14, 18:25

Originally posted by underthecountertenor View Post

[T]here are plenty of churches, cathedrals and chapels who don't follow the BCP cycle.

There are – I think only about a dozen places still sing the BCP psalms for the day on a regular basis. However, I was under the impression that all places that broadcast Choral Evensong (the cathedrals among them at least) were encouraged, if not even required, by the BBC to broadcast the BCP psalms, even if that was not their usual practice.

**ardcarp** · 10-10-14, 19:02

Indeed tjrm_93, thanks for a most enlightening and enlightened post!

I'd like to explode the myth that broadcast CE is like being a fly on the wall of a cathedral on a wet, foggy Friday afternoon when choristers, lay clerks, organist and DoM are just doing what they normally do. Of course it isn't! All concerned are on their mettle and anxious to do their very best and to showcase (to some extent) what they can do. There is also (and I've been been there and done it) a nervous tension which can, if all goes well, produce brilliant results. Just occasionally, a routine wet, foggy, etc, etc, can produce magic too, but that is more random.

**DracoM** · 10-10-14, 21:23

Many thanks too. I don't actually share the angst over the 15th day: here's the text of the Ferguson anthem.

The St Teresa of Avila Poem is here:

Let nothing disturb you,
Let nothing frighten you,
All things are passing away:
God never changes.
Patience obtains all things
Whoever has God lacks nothing;
God alone suffices.

Nada te turbe,
nada te espante;
todo se pasa,
Dios no se muda.
La pacientia todo lo alcanza.
Quien a Dios tiene nada la falta:
solo Dios basta.

..............and if you're working up an appetite and need assuaging:

St. Teresa's Bread
Pan De Santa Teresa

A tasty breakfast, a first cousin to French toast, but with a flavour and texture all its own.

2 cups milk
3 tablespoons sugar
1 cinnamon stick
1 good piece of lemon peel
12 slices Italian/French bread (a little stale) 1/2-3/4 inch thick
3 eggs
Pinch of salt
Cinnamon-sugar for sprinkling on the toast
Olive oil for frying

Combine the milk with the sugar, cinnamon, and lemon peel. Simmer gently for 5 to 10 minutes, until the milk has become well flavoured. Place the bread in a large flat dish or pan, and strain the milk over it.

Beat the eggs in a shallow bowl with a pinch of salt. With a spatula, lay the slices of bread in the egg, turning them to coat both sides. Beat additional eggs and salt together if necessary to finish coating bread slices. Fry the bread in the olive oil until it is browned and crusty on both sides.

Sprinkle with cinnamon-sugar.

Yield: 4-6 servings

CE Royal Holloway, University of London 15th October 2014

CE Royal Holloway, University of London 15th October 2014

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment