'The Choir' on R3

[Gabriel Jackson]

Promoters possibly think that by calling such a meet 'Games' it will make it seem all zeitgeisty.

Here is the World Choir Games raison d'etre for the name: "The idea to create an event like the World Choir Games is based on the Olympic ideals, which aim to peacefully unify singing people and nations connected by song in a fair competition." Doesn't seem unreasonable to me, though I have other serious reservations about the whole (biennial) thing.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Here is the World Choir Games raison d'etre for the name: "The idea to create an event like the World Choir Games is based on the Olympic ideals, which aim to peacefully unify singing people and nations connected by song in a fair competition." Doesn't seem unreasonable to me, though I have other serious reservations about the whole (biennial) thing.

I think I agree with that. As a one-off it will probably be great. Every 5 or 10 years perhaps? But every two years? There are pitfalls. The Leeds International Piano Competition is only once in 3 year (and the Preston Guild only once every 20 years).






And as for Denby Dale Pie…

[DracoM]

Then what a pity we did not get a properly researched and contextualised slot on the Choir Games, examining different training methods, different sounds coached, different classes, their repertoires, instead of the appalling dogs' dinner / ragbag 'The Choir' goes for every damn time.

Here was a classic occasion in which all manner of good things could have come out of ONE big jamboree of singers from all manner of different nations. I'm delighted that UK choirs did so well, but then to NOT showcase them, use them as a hook to hang a long slot on, is to belittle and demean both their achievements and the context in which they succeeded, and incidentally rob R3 listeners of the chance to listen attentively to fine music making instead of being fed Classic Charts, trails, tweets, and restless trivia / wallpaper.

Makes me weep with rage that the genre the programme purports to serve is so hugely impoverished by the production team's R2 outlook. I am amazed that eminent choral composers and practitioners on these threads and on the CE threads do not relentlessly lobby the R3 teams to get them to realise the damage they are doing - and I do mean damage.

[Gabriel Jackson]

Then what a pity we did not get a properly researched and contextualised slot on the Choir Games, examining different training methods, different sounds coached, different classes, their repertoires, instead of the appalling dogs' dinner / ragbag 'The Choir' goes for every damn time.

Unless I misheard, The Choir has already done something about this year's World Choir Games.

Here was a classic occasion in which all manner of good things could have come out of ONE big jamboree of singers from all manner of different nations. I'm delighted that UK choirs did so well, but then to NOT showcase them, use them as a hook to hang a long slot on, is to belittle and demean both their achievements and the context in which they succeeded, and incidentally rob R3 listeners of the chance to listen attentively to fine music making instead of being fed Classic Charts, trails, tweets, and restless trivia / wallpaper.

I think you misunderstand the World Choir Games - the nature of the whole thing is that it is very difficult not to win a prize! I was in Riga in July while it was going on and I'm afraid I stayed well clear - I had much more interesting things to do!

Makes me weep with rage that the genre the programme purports to serve is so hugely impoverished by the production team's R2 outlook. I am amazed that eminent choral composers and practitioners on these threads and on the CE threads do not relentlessly lobby the R3 teams to get them to realise the damage they are doing - and I do mean damage.

Perhaps those people don't think any damage is being done?

[Gabriel Jackson]

I think I agree with that. As a one-off it will probably be great. Every 5 or 10 years perhaps? But every two years? There are pitfalls. The Leeds International Piano Competition is only once in 3 year (and the Preston Guild only once every 20 years).







And as for Denby Dale Pie…

What do you agree with? My reservations about the World Choir Games have nothing to do with its happening every two years.

[french frank]

My reservations about the World Choir Games have nothing to do with its happening every two years.

Your inclusion of the word 'biennial' might have given that impression. I took the brackets to be intended as a clarification of what you said.

[mercia]

well I did learn something on yesterday's programme, although it now seems embarrassingly obvious - that Britten uses the DSCH motif in Rejoice In The Lamb

[ardcarp]

Yes, I was listening (by accident, you understand) and heard that too. Also quite enjoyed the bit about overtone singing. Silly Sarah started off by saying, "How do you do this whistling?" and was quickly slapped down. BTW, I think the programme was a repeat.

[Gabriel Jackson]

well I did learn something on yesterday's programme, although it now seems embarrassingly obvious - that Britten uses the DSCH motif in Rejoice In The Lamb

Unlikely to be a conscious alllusion though, as the words are "silly fellow".

[mercia]

i don't know if Sarah was getting her information from wikipedia

5.For I am under the same accusation with my Saviour (Chorus) – a passage in which Smart describes his mistreatment by "the officers of the peace," comparing himself to Jesus: "For I am in twelve Hardships, but he that was born of a virgin shall deliver me out of all." Philip Brett writes of this section: "At the heart of Rejoice in the Lamb, framed by a Purcellian prelude and postlude and cheerful choruses and solos, lies a chilling choral recitative rehearsing the theme of oppression that was to boil over in Peter Grimes, and a spiritual resolution that looks forward to the very different scenario of The Rape of Lucretia." Britten also alludes to Dmitri Shostakovich, who was facing censure in the USSR. The DSCH motif (the sequence of notes D, E-flat, C and B which spell out the composer's name) appears frequently in the organ part, at first quietly, and later fortissimo against the thunderous chords accompanying "And the watchman strikes me with his staff".

[Gabriel Jackson]

i don't know if Sarah was getting her information from wikipedia

5.For I am under the same accusation with my Saviour (Chorus) – a passage in which Smart describes his mistreatment by "the officers of the peace," comparing himself to Jesus: "For I am in twelve Hardships, but he that was born of a virgin shall deliver me out of all." Philip Brett writes of this section: "At the heart of Rejoice in the Lamb, framed by a Purcellian prelude and postlude and cheerful choruses and solos, lies a chilling choral recitative rehearsing the theme of oppression that was to boil over in Peter Grimes, and a spiritual resolution that looks forward to the very different scenario of The Rape of Lucretia." Britten also alludes to Dmitri Shostakovich, who was facing censure in the USSR. The DSCH motif (the sequence of notes D, E-flat, C and B which spell out the composer's name) appears frequently in the organ part, at first quietly, and later fortissimo against the thunderous chords accompanying "And the watchman strikes me with his staff".

Rejoice in the Lamb was written in 1943, long before Shostakovich himself started using the DSCH motif. Whilst Britten was an admirer of Shostakovich they didn't actually meet and get to know each other until 1960. I can't see how Britten, or anyone else in the UK, could have been aware of Shostakovich's persecution by the regime, especially as at that time the USSR were our allies, and Shostakovich was best known internationally as the composer of the Leningrad Symphony, then seen as a paean to Soviet defiance and resistance to the Nazis.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Rejoice in the Lamb was written in 1943, long before Shostakovich himself started using the DSCH motif. Whilst Britten was an admirer of Shostakovich they didn't actually meet and get to know each other until 1960. I can't see how Britten, or anyone else in the UK, could have been aware of Shostakovich's persecution by the regime, especially as at that time the USSR were our allies, and Shostakovich was best known internationally as the composer of the Leningrad Symphony, then seen as a paean to Soviet defiance and resistance to the Nazis.

That's a fair point, though I leave it to others to judge the likelihood of Britten knowing of Shostakovich's difficulties with the authorities in connection with Lady Macbeth of the Mtsensk District in 1936.

[ardcarp]

Rejoice in the Lamb was written in 1943, long before Shostakovich himself started using the DSCH motif. Whilst Britten was an admirer of Shostakovich they didn't actually meet and get to know each other until 1960. I can't see how Britten, or anyone else in the UK, could have been aware of Shostakovich's persecution by the regime, especially as at that time the USSR were our allies, and Shostakovich was best known internationally as the composer of the Leningrad Symphony, then seen as a paean to Soviet defiance and resistance to the Nazis.

If there were a deliberate use of DSCH in Rejoice in the Lamb, I'm surprised it went un-remarked upon by many an analytical brain for so long. There was certainly no mention of it in my school or student days. But I am quite intrigued by the idea......

Agreed, it occurs at 'silly fellow' in the choral part, but the overall section of the text:

For the officers of the peace
are at variance with me,
and the watchman smites me
with his staff.
For silly fellow, silly fellow,
is against me,
and belongeth neither to me
nor to my family.

...makes it clear that the 'silly fellow' represents the oppressor (in Smart's case, those who keep him in the asylum against his will). Therefore for Britten to have used the motif as a cipher for oppression in general seems possible.

[jean]

...the 'silly fellow' represents the oppressor (in Smart's case, those who keep him in the asylum against his will). ...

I always thought it referred to the jibes cast at him by others.

[DracoM]

Prog was a repeat from May 2014.