What's in a Name

[Guest]

Is there a difference between a Director of Music and a Master of Music?

These days most cathedrals appoint a DoM but I would have thought that any self respecting musician would want to be considered to be and should be a Master of his art and have a title that reflects this.

To me "Director of Music" just seems to be a post i.e. manager of the music dept who perhaps doesn't have to be particularly talented as a musical technician

We refer to Master craftsmen eg Master masons, Master builders, Master carpenters, Master bakers etc; and in the religious world the artists who compiled the stunning illuminated manuscripts are referred to as the Master of the place where the document or book was compiled eg the Master of Burgundy etc.

In music and the world of conducting we refer to Maestros.

Singers in my opinion respond to mastery as much as orchestras.

When St Paul's made Barry Rose (who was not a great organist) Master of the Choir it was an aptly named appointment. He never had a very wide repertoire but he had charisma, he was a perfectionist and achieved wonderful performances (often of mediocre music) from all his choirs.

There are still some cathedrals who have Masters of the Music. I wish there were more.

VCC.

[David Underdown]

Didn't Master of the Choristers originally imply a teaching role, just as school teachers were generally called masters?

[Triforium]

Not sure how many are actually called Master of Music. It's usually Master of the Choir, Master of the Choristers. Choirmaster, etc. When I first heard DoM used I thought it implied o position with more authority over all of the musical activities at a particular foundation. Just my impression though.

[Vile Consort]

The job titles are arbitrary and to try to draw a distinction based on them is pointless. What matters is what the holder of the post actually does in the performance of his or her duties.

I my experience, few peoples' job titles bear much relation to what they actually do from day to day. Look at all those Customer Service Managers you see on the train. They don't manage anything more complicated than the drinks trolley.

[Triforium]

Perhaps so VC, but there is a degree of authority implicit in certain job titles and not others. I would agree that some titles are simply made up. However, I could easily see a situation where the Dean of a Cathedral might think it unnecessary to consult an "Organist and Master of the Choristers" about having their friend with a choral group come and perform, but would run it by a DoM.

[MrGongGong]

What would Dave Brock be ?

Master of the Universe ?

[Magnificat]

T

I my experience, few peoples' job titles bear much relation to what they actually do from day to day. Look at all those Customer Service Managers you see on the train. They don't manage anything more complicated than the drinks trolley.

VC

Exactly: but I'm sure that most of us who listen regularly to our cathedral and college choirs know which of their DoMs are really Masters of their art rather than people who just wave their arms about in front of their choirs, manage the weekly music list and are great at PR and organising choir tours. Individuals who would be worthy of the title "Master of the Music" if it existed at their cathedral/college.

I remember hearing a well known choir master being addressed by a member of the audience at a concert interval as Maestro and layclerks at a cathedral I know well address their organist as Master. Words that speak volumes to me as to the capabilities of the persons concerned.

It is also very satisfying to me to see an order of service in a place that still uses this title showing the "Master of the Music" at the head of the choir procession and knowing that the post holder is exactly that.

I deliberately couched my last sentence in the opening post of this thread in the way I did.

VCC

[MrGongGong]

surely the whole toadying "yes maestro , no maestro" nonsense that one sometimes finds with orchestral conductors is well due for he dustbin of history ?

Max is The Master
who is the Doctor ?

[Miles Coverdale]

Master of Music is just a title - it doesn't mean that the holder of the post is necessarily anything of the sort. Likewise calling a conductor 'maestro' is just a convention, if a slightly sycophantic-sounding one.

If you mean to imply that the use of the term Director of Music rather than Master of Music is accompanied by a lower degree of skill or self-respect on the part of the person concerned, then I think that is nonsense. What if the post-holder is a woman (shock, horror) - should she be a Mistress of Music? I can hear the lay clerks laughing already. Perhaps we could go down the Etonian route and have a Dame of Music.

If you think that (for example) Andrew Lumsden at Winchester lacks self-respect because he's called the Director of Music, or that he isn't 'particularly talented', I'm sure he'd be only too pleased to hear from you.

But at least you didn't start this thread as a thinly-veiled excuse to worship at the shrine of St Barry (again) ...

[DracoM]

Next week's CE is from.....................
.................................................. .............St Alban's!!

[Lizzie]

Indeed MC! Around here, Andy Lumsden is INDEED Master of everything musical and I'll fight anyone who says otherwise! Equally he DOES 'direct' everything that involves the music at Winchester Cathedral, working with the Canon Precentor. Hope to see you all at Southern Cathedrals Festival in July - at Winchester this year. All best wishes. Liz

[Magnificat]

Master of Music is just a title - it doesn't mean that the holder of the post is necessarily anything of the sort. Likewise calling a conductor 'maestro' is just a convention, if a slightly sycophantic-sounding one.

If you mean to imply that the use of the term Director of Music rather than Master of Music is accompanied by a lower degree of skill or self-respect on the part of the person concerned, then I think that is nonsense. What if the post-holder is a woman (shock, horror) - should she be a Mistress of Music? I can hear the lay clerks laughing already. Perhaps we could go down the Etonian route and have a Dame of Music.

If you think that (for example) Andrew Lumsden at Winchester lacks self-respect because he's called the Director of Music, or that he isn't 'particularly talented', I'm sure he'd be only too pleased to hear from you.

But at least you didn't start this thread as a thinly-veiled excuse to worship at the shrine of St Barry (again) ...

MC

I really just lament the lack of use of a title which I think would give the post of cathedral organist/choirmaster its proper respect.

The title Master of the Choristers, as has been pointed out previously, in its original context is now anachronistic and could properly be dropped.

As I said, other arts and crafts still use the title "Master" to indicate a person who is at the pinnacle of accomplishment in his profession. Director of Music just seems such a bureaucratic title although obviously there is a lot of paper work etc in the job.

It's unfortunate, but it would be disingenuous to say that individual cathedral organists/choirmasters are always highly accomplished but I would be content for the position to have that title.

Mastery is to be desired but it is quite a rare thing. Some of our so - called orchestral Maestros are not always that well thought of by their players.

There is no reason at all why a woman cannot be called Master in this respect. It is not necessarily a gender orientated term.

Lizzie,

For the record, I consider that AL does indeed merit the title Master of the Music. I wish Winchester would use it.

Draco,

My post had nothing to do with next week's broadcast; but in my opinion St Albans's AL also merits his title and I am glad they still use it as they have had several such accomplished musicians in recent years ( not least, MC, Barry Rose ) and hopefully will continue to do so.

VCC